Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
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The mistakes I make

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=13101

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Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:13 am
by dfan
mongus wrote:
dfan wrote: By the way, you should still try to answer Uberdude's question. (I had accidentally told you the answer in a comment I made at the same time as his question, but I have deleted my spoiler.)
I came up with a couple of possibilities above. Are there other options?
Oh, so you did! I missed it. I was thinking of this, which is easier to find in a game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X O O O 1 . . |
$$ . X . X O 2 . . . |
$$ . . . X X O O 3 . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
But your move works too.

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:22 pm
by mongus
Couldn't White ensure survival with the following :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X O O O 1 2 . |
$$ . X . X O 3 . . . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Then :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . 2 X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 1 . 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I think that shape is alive?

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:14 pm
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X O O O 1 2 . |
$$ . X . X O . 3 . . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:18 pm
by Fedya
mongus wrote:Couldn't White ensure survival with the following :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X O O O 1 2 . |
$$ . X . X O 3 . . . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Then :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . 2 X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 1 . 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I think that shape is alive?
Then :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 1 2 . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
I like Dfan's variation better.

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:26 pm
by Bill Spight
Fedya wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 1 2 . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
I like Dfan's variation better.
Oh, yours looks like fun, though. :D

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:30 pm
by Bill Spight
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Just to cross the eyes and dot the teas. What now?

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:48 am
by mongus
Ah yes. Thanks. I guess life would only be assured if you were playing against me!


Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Just to cross the eyes and dot the teas. What now?

Hmm...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O 3 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
or
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O 1 . |
$$ . . . . X X X O 3 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
or
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O . |
$$ . . . X X O O . 1 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Either way, white is dead.

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:06 am
by dfan
mongus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O 3 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Does White have an alternative on move 3?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O . |
$$ . . . X X O O . 1 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
and now what does White play?

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:17 am
by mongus
Ah
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O . |
$$ . . . X X O O . 1 |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . . . X X X 4 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

White lives.

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:18 am
by ez4u
In Bill's diagram it is Black to play not White. If Black plays tenuki, White lives...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O . |
$$ . . . X X O O . 1 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 1 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 5 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 4 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:22 am
by mongus
Although here, I think White is still dead :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:32 am
by ez4u
mongus wrote:Although here, I think White is still dead :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
True if White answers 2 with 3, however, ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:34 am
by dfan
mongus wrote:Although here, I think White is still dead :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Yup. Does White have yet another alternative for move 3?

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:22 am
by mongus
So
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 4 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 5 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
or
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 4 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
then :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 7 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 6 . |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Luckily :b6: can be ignored duo to the extra liberty at T14. If that was filled in :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 8 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 6 7 |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
White would be dead.

Re: The mistakes I make

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:39 am
by dfan
Nicely done! I wouldn't say " :b6: can be ignored" (to me that implies White could tenuki) but instead say " :b6: doesn't work". You are absolutely correct about the extra liberty being necessary, and the :b6: trick to make a false eye comes up all the time in tsumego (and occasionally in actual games as well :)).
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