Life In 19x19

I always whined about the time lost since I discovered Go so late. (Wonder what it would have done in my school days...)

And now, at my parents, hidden under a bed in a room rarely used, mixed up with various sheets of coloured paper and (old) games I found Ravensburger's Go + Gobang. And seeing its cover I remembered this packet from my childhood. It was always laying there - waiting! And I never even opened it (the plastic bags with the plastic stones are still closed).

Worlds are breaking apart :X

SoDesuNe wrote:I always whined about the time lost since I discovered Go so late. (Wonder what it would have done in my school days...)

And now, at my parents, hidden under a bed in a room rarely used, mixed up with various sheets of coloured paper and (old) games I found Ravensburger's Go + Gobang. And seeing its cover I remembered this packet from my childhood. It was always laying there - waiting! And I never even opened it (the plastic bags with the plastic stones are still closed).

Worlds are breaking apart :X

When I was young we got this book of games that came with black and white glass markers. There were maybe 18-20 games in the book, like mancala and checkers and, of course, go. I think I played it once and never looked back until 10-15 years later. That game was too confusing.

As thought, I'm back at being a Go nut.

I happily got every Go-book I wished for at christmas and started firstly with reading "First Kyu". Never read such a devastating end so far... Although the perverse thing is that I'm now really pumped to get stronger. Are we Go-players not a funny masochistic bunch? =)

So, it's again 20 problems on goproblems.com (range 5k to 4d), round about 20 problems from Yi Ch'ang-Ho's Tsumego vol. 3 and replaying two games from Games of Honinbo Shuei vol. 3 (I'm at game 8 so far) a day.

My Go club also started this week again and I feel like I'm bouncing between ranks. End of last year when I followed the above study regime I could play one fellow Go player on 4H (as White), after losing on 3H before following the study regime. Now I'm back at losing on 3H again ^^

I feel like my biggest obstacle is still overall strategy: Making the game broader, direction of play, balance etc. It's definitely not reading because when I do it mostly turns out good =D

But, well, well, I still stick to the plan of cycling through these books while doing problems online (more variety) and replaying games.

1. YCH Tesuji vol. 1
2. YCH L&D vol. 1
3. Get Strong at the Opening
4. YCH Tesuji vol. 2
5. YCH L&D vol. 2
6. 501 Opening Problems
7. YCH Tesuji vol. 3
8. YCH L&D vol. 3
9. YCH Tesuji vol. 4
10. YCH L&D vol. 4

With replaying games I'd like to stick to Shuei for the moment. I already been through vol. 4 once and I plan on replaying all the games in vol. 3 and 4 at least three times (First time with commentary and more for the feel. Second time more thinking about each diagramme and then reading the commentary again. Third time even more thinking and figuring out the moves while using Ten's guide to studying professional games). I figured since he matured late, his later games will show his real strength.

That's the plan at least : ) I'm still unsure how or if I should include other books like "A Way of Play Go for the 21st Century". But well, let's try it out: Flowing water does not fight what lies ahead =)

Did you also get 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki Vol. 2, and are you enjoying it?

Why do you enjoy studying Shuei and his games? I also think his games from 1892-1895 are instructive too. They take me back down to Earth and make his later games easier to understand.

501 Opening Problems is a slice of a certain kind of play -- so I find it interesting to compare in relation to Shuei, and when thinking about games played after the book was published.

logan wrote:Did you also get 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki Vol. 2, and are you enjoying it?

No, not yet. I think I am going to buy it in the next couples of months. It was not available in my store of choice before christmas.
On the other hand, I'm still unsure whether I should "study" Joseki just yet and if yes, I don't know how it would be most benificial :o

logan wrote:Why do you enjoy studying Shuei and his games? I also think his games from 1892-1895 are instructive too. They take me back down to Earth and make his later games easier to understand.

Good question! But I can't really explain it. I think it's partly because I do have his games with very good commentary. Another aspect is that I like his "style". I like how he plays lightly, how deep his reading is and his positional judgement (I never know he will get many points in the center until he does...). The whole Miai-business and playing the player from time to time is also very fascinating.
But overall I'm far too weak to really comment on his games. Mostly I just quote the commentary, so I don't really understand his play at all ^^
Right now it's more feeling and appreciating the beauty of his moves. Sometimes moves just send thrills down my spine - just by the look of them : D

The main reason I stick to the latter games is because I like my hero to play awesome and win ; ) I also have the feeling, I could learn more from games from his prime - maybe unjustified.
When I'm strong enough to see "mistakes", respectively certain mindsets in his games which are similiar to amateur dan-players, I gladly look at his other games but sadly I am far away from this.

logan wrote:501 Opening Problems is a slice of a certain kind of play -- so I find it interesting to compare in relation to Shuei, and when thinking about games played after the book was published.

Yes, I also think that's very interesting! For instance: One of the last games I replayed commented on the famous Shusaku Fuseki and said that by now (meaning back in Shuei's time), Fuseki theory evolved and that Shusaku's Fuseki is not the best way to play for Black (in detail: Black should enclose the corner on move five and not take the remaining open corner). Later Go Seigen will say, the open corner is always bigger? : D

Fuseki is indeed very interesting, by now my favourite part of the game : )

Finished Yi Ch'ang-Ho's Tsumego vol. 3 today and I am starting his Tesuji vol. 4. If I remember correctly this volume was rather easy despite it being volume four out of six. The Tsumego problems do get harder with every volume, the Tesuji ones jump around a bit.
After that comes - right - volume four of the Tsumego problems. When I worked at it the first time I had to lay it aside after a douzen or so problems because I was practically clueless as how to solve the them. I'm curious how I will do now.

Then starts the fun part: Re-doing everything from the circle and checking if I do better. I marked every wrong problem from the Yi Ch'ang-Ho series, so I can easily check them but I sadly didn't do this for the opening problems, so I have to go by feeling and mark the wrong ones this time.
My goal is to get around 95% right in every book.

I also started to go through "A way of play for the 21st century" by Go Seigen. I read and replayed the second chapter "Study of Komoku" (since they are obviously played often in games by Shuei - he even gets mentioned in Go Seigen's book =) ) and discovered a lot of nice ideas. I won't say I understand everything about them and at some points I clearly don't understand why he doesn't explain another (for me obvious) move but it seems I just don't have the proper understanding how to maintain balance in the game of Go - which seems to be one of the main focal points of this book.
Anyhow - I'm thrilled to experiment with some of his concepts : )

Hello, my name is SoDesuNe and when I play Go, I have the bad habit of not assessing my move.

- (all) Hello SoDesuNe!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Black to play and lose the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Thank you! You all have been very kind and helpful. Cookies?

So what was the response?

@skydyr

I see many ways White MIGHT take advantage ... but I agree I'm not sure at the loss. I'm weaker than he is, though, so maybe he's reading something I'm not.

Marcus wrote:@skydyr

I see many ways White MIGHT take advantage ... but I agree I'm not sure at the loss. I'm weaker than he is, though, so maybe he's reading something I'm not.

My impression is that black's move isn't spectacular, but is by no means a losing move on its own, so either black made more mistakes in the sequence that followed, or there is a white sequence I missed.

So, SoDesuNe, did the cutting stones get captured?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc I think this is dead, isn't it?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 9 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Marcus wrote:So, SoDesuNe, did the cutting stones get captured?

$$Bc I think this is dead, isn't it?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 9 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc I think this is dead, isn't it?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 9 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oh, I took the extension as an attempt to gain more liberties before sacrificing, to get forcing moves on the outside, only that white can ignore and cut.

Something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 1 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X X 2 . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White gets a nice corner, but black's doing pretty well in the center.

If white answers at Marcus' black can play as here and get the corner.

Well, as long as assessing the situation goes this move is (most likely) the correct response.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White can't really take Gote here and capture the stone, so Black has a lot of Aji later on. And even if White takes, it results in a awefully overconcentrated position.


This was the game (I don't remember the exact order of moves but the resulting position is correct) and yeah, I made more mistakes later on ^^

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O 6 8 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 2 0 . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc After White played 'b' and I resigned. Didn't see this.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . a O O X X 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X X O O . 7 . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . 9 c . X 4 . . 0 . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

By the way after , when White plays 'c' the corner turns into a Ko.

But well, extending this one stone was simply bad and unnecessary : /

Just something I slapped together, so it might not be optimal play.



(edit, I forgot to add variation 4).

My view of the bad move in the game line is actually . I would have ataried from the other side to climb higher and then captured in a ladder, sacrificing the stone that was originally extended from and getting a nice bottom side. Black looks like he's ahead in this game, so he can afford to take a nice profit in exchange for giving white a strong center group. Black has a strong group on the other side of it, so white's group will never be terribly valuable. The fight, on the other hand, seems to be something to play when behind, to bet the game on it instead of losing outright. I could, of course, be severely mistaken here.

Edited for tone.