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paK0's goals and dreams

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Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:55 pm
by paK0
No updates for the past days, I've had kind of a go-burnout, mostly because the problems aren't really going well, I think I'll go back to doing some where I actually have the solutions. My reading is as crappy as ever, so instead of running around like a headless chicken and doing tsumego without improving, I'll try to take a more memorization focused approach. No reading required if I know the answer :D.

Anyway, looked at 30 problems (I think I solved about half, but who knows if they where right) and played a game. It was close, but I still feel really bad about it, the whole thing felt kinda bloodless, I didn't play one move that I would classify as really good and towards the end I got an abysmal result in the top right and got totally overplayed in the following endgame:

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:49 pm
by oca
paK0 wrote:mostly because the problems aren't really going well,

Hi pak0,

Just curious, what kind of problems are you doing ?, do you follow a particular book ?
do you pratice them "in your head" or with a goban ?

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:46 am
by ez4u
At 131 both of you forgot what were the important stones. In the game you answered at 3 below and Black captured at 2. Instead you should have connected at 2! These are the vital stones that threaten to cut off Black's left-side group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Exciting part #1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X , X 1 . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O . X X O O O X O 3 . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O O X O X X O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O 2 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X 6 X 4 . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . 8 7 5 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Obviously death is not an option so Black has to back up...
White can push into the bottom area due to the thinness of Black's group. The top right is not something to worry about...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X , X X 7 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O . X X O O O X O . 8 . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O O X O X X O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O O 2 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X 1 X . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . . . 3 X 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O 4 . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At 142 what were you think'n!? :)
Simply 1 and it's, "Nothing here, move along!"...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Facepalm time!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X X X X O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O O X O O . . . O O O |
$$ | . . O . O O . O X X . X O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O X . O . . 2 X . . |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X . X . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . . . . X . 3 . 1 O . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even after that, however, there was a big chance...
When Black (mistakenly) answered 1 below at 2, White should have immediately played the atari at 3. If Black connects at 4 as in the game, White 5 captures the Black stones. If Black plays 6 at 7, White 'a' is atari and White wins the fight. In fact Black would have had to play 4 at 7 and fight the ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Exciting part #2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X X X X O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O O X O O . . . O O O |
$$ | . . O . O O . O X X . X O . . . . X 5 |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O X . O . . a X 4 7 |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X . X . . . O O O X 3 |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . . . . X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O . . X , X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 2 6 . |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's push at 3 below in the game changed the shape significantly and allows Black to capture the 3 stones.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc No excitement here :-(
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X X X X O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O O X O O . . . O O O |
$$ | . . O . O O . O X X . X O . . . . X 7 |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O X . O . . . X 6 9 |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X . X . . . O O O X 5 |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . . . . X . . . X O 0 |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O . . X , X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 2 3 8 |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last but not least.
When Black played 1 and there was that big Whoops(!) moment. It was time look a little closer. White should throw in at 2 and atari at 4. Black can not connect so capturing at 6 is sente. There is no reason to finish capturing here. Black has to fight and win the ko to prevent White capturing the additional stone. After exchanging 8 for 9, I would play 10 and invite Black to kill my center stones if he thinks he can...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 6@2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O O . O O X X X X X O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O O X O O . . . O O O |
$$ | . . O . O O . O X X . X O . . . 4 X . |
$$ | . . . X X . O . X O X . O . . O X 2 3 |
$$ | . X X . . X X X X . X . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . O . X X . O O . . . . X . . . X O 5 |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . O . O . . X , X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . 0 . . . X O 1 |
$$ | . O O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . X X . . . . X O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . X . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . 8 . . , . X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . O O . X X O . . O . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . O O . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:53 am
by paK0
oca wrote:
paK0 wrote:mostly because the problems aren't really going well,

Hi pak0,

Just curious, what kind of problems are you doing ?, do you follow a particular book ?
do you pratice them "in your head" or with a goban ?


Cho Chikuns elementary problems.

I do them mostly in my head and move on to goban/pc if I can't figure it out, but even then I don't get it sometimes :(


@ez4u:

Thanks a lot, the one in the top right apparently happened because of my bad reading, I'm working on that :).

Missing what stones are important happens quite a lot, even more when I'm low on time, but I'm not really sure what to do about it.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:12 pm
by paK0
- 150 problems (not Cho's)
- Some Joseki study

I looked at some 3-4 joseki, mostly because I have no clue about them and having just one option when someone plops a 3-4 stone down is not cool. I really hope my anxiety goes away and I can play some games tomorrow.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:36 pm
by Knotwilg
By the great Go Seigen and Kitani Minoru, be gone anxiety.

Your anxiety is now gone.

You're welcome.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:11 pm
by paK0
Thanks, lets just say that it worked for the moment =)

- One page of Cho's problems
- 50 easier L&D problems
- Memorized the first 100 moves of two pro games, this is more fun than joseki study
- 2 games (1-1)

The one that I lost was kind of a throwaway, haven't played a real game for the past few days, so I used that to get back into it. The second one was a nice victory, got a good attack with profit for a clear win.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:59 am
by paK0
Today:

- 1 more game memorized
- 1 Page of Cho's problems
- 25 other L&D problems
- played 5 games (2-3)

The losses were pretty bad all in all. One time I missed an atatri and lost a huge group, the other two were games where the opponents started fights early and completely beat me. I should feel a lot worse about those losses, but for some reason I don't. I still make the same mistakes I made a few weeks ago and I still loose to the same stuff I lost to some weeks ago, I guess you can only bang your head against a wall for so many times before you stop caring about the room behind it.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:52 am
by paK0
So after a few days of break for head clearing and restructuring my studies (changed some things and also cut down on study time as a whole, it was just too frustrating) I feel like the last few days were more productive in terms of getting better.

- I finally dropped Cho's elementary problems, too much uncertainty and not knowing the answers turned it more into a frustration bearing exercise that actual go practice. Back to graded go problems for now.
- Memorized some pro games, I know 4 right now and will probably add one whenever I feel like it.
- Played a game every now and then. Games right now go well and are fun, I take my time to read and it greatly improved my fighting problems, I feel like I'm actually playing real games now.


On that matter a game I just played. My opponent resigned way to early, but I'd like some input on the end position nontheless:


This was were he resigned, much to my surprise, I think I was ahead, but not by that much. Anyway two questions about this position:
1. Where to play? In the game I was contemplating doing something about the top left corner but now after I looked at it calmly this is probably not the best idea. Either building the left side (G13, G12, H12 or something among those lines) or strengthening my top group (K15 or G15 come to mind). Another possibility might be to start playing "endgame" moves. While this might be a little premature, O18 caught my eye, as it is pulling double duty (endgame and also helps to strengthen my top group).

2. Back to the top left corner =). If I were to go in there, what would be the proper way? I looked at senseis and couldn't find anything. I know of the D18 attachment/probe/invasion, but maybe with my surrounding stones I could get a little more out of it.

Thanks in advance

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:56 am
by Knotwilg
Obviously too early to resign. Congratulations with your play: if someone told me a dan player was at work, I'd have believed it.

I tried to answer your questions. Sure there will be better ideas.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:01 am
by Uberdude
Gosh, what a boring game, maybe that's why black resigned ;-) . You could just start the endgame. k15 is another idea to solidify your top group as that is the only potential troublesome area for you (left side should be yours I think). Or q16 as that asks black if he wants to give you o18 in sente or have a little weakness on the right (q16 r17 p13 perhaps). I wouldn't bother trying to invade the top left: e14 helps black there. Just b15 and e18 yose look good enough to win. You are ahead, don't give yourself opportunities to screw up.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:06 am
by skydyr
This seems way too early for black to resign, even if black feels behind.

As for things white can do, I'm not entirely certain. My eye is drawn to expanding the left with G12 or expanding the top in the same area, like with G15. I wouldn't bother to do anything about the upper left corner... it's not that big, and it's fairly secure at this point. Sealing it in would be better so it won't affect the rest of the game. There is a bit of invasion potential around M17 that playing at K15 or so would help fix. I don't know that it's a big concern yet, but you look ahead so you may as well simplify. Apart from that, all the groups look solid, though, and white looks ahead so you can look to take the big endgame moves.

I see knotwilg beat me to the punch, but I figure I'll put this up anyways.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:35 am
by paK0
Thanks for all the feedback.

Another game I could use some help with, I ended up resigning after a minor reading blunder, but the game was more or less over by that point anyway. I don't really know what went wrong, but it felt like I was constantly loosing ground.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:25 am
by Knotwilg
White took 3 big corners and was not punished. Some strategic advice at key points:

:b25: leads to a heavy ko, but this is difficult to judge perhaps

:b37: elementary strategy: split the enemy's forces

:b53: play aggressively in your sphere of influence

:b91: abort a plan if it becomes unclear and look for other weak groups

153: very good! you cut and get a chance to win

157: alas, you ignore the vital point

183: last chance to play the vital point - g.o.

See attachment for 1-move variations at these key points.

Re: paK0's goals and dreams

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:06 am
by Bill Spight
Some comments. :)



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