The things folks get offended by...Joaz Banbeck wrote:( Hi, Graham! Welcome back. )
For me, I over estimate. I'll cruise through an even endgame, thinking that I'm ahead, then find that I lost by 3.5.
I try to compensate by fighting for every last point because I'm unsure. Then I find my opponent is offended because I piled on, fighting the 1/2 point ko when I was fifteen ahead.
Kirby's Study Journal
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
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Harleqin
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I don't think :w190: was necessary to kill, and White should have connected on the left side instead.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Agree - I hallucinated and thought I'd be captured if I played H13.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Today was the deciding game for who would be one of the top in the A2 league of the AYD. I had only one loss so far, and it was a very silly one. My opponent also had just one loss this month. So the game meant a lot in terms of the result.
Here's the game:
Instead of a review, I'll just say how I'm feeling right now:
Here's the game:
Instead of a review, I'll just say how I'm feeling right now:
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Oh, and here's a blah graph:
I've had the feeling before. It's like I spent an hour and a half being very careful not to fall behind, building up my structure. And then a wrong move and wooosh. The house falls down.
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Uberdude
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Kirby, at least you didn't spend 8 hours in a national championship title match to get such a graph: https://online-go.com/game/25262354.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I don’t really feel better about that, but sorry for your loss.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Mark Lee reviewed the game from yesterday. I didn't watch it live since I was mad. According to him, my mistake was in this move:
Instead, he said I can just surround from the outside and make a big center shape.
I agree with him up until there. But he also said that white was comfortably winning here: Since the capture of the marked stones is big. I don't know if I agree with this. First, my own sense of the game is that black is ahead. I believe I have more points, and that's what I thought during the game, too.
Second, I let KataGo churn on this position for a little while. Usually I just skim through to get a rough idea, but even after 20k playouts, it notes black as ahead by 86.3%.
I maintain that my problems came with this sequence: And then getting cut off like I did in the game. I don't think that white was ahead before cutting me off.
Indeed, before the marked move above, if I let KataGo run up to 20k playouts, it puts black at 94.1%. I think it's safe to say that black was winning here.
So not only did I make a silly blunder that cost me the game, but my friend/reviewer/teacher even thinks I was losing before that blunder. And I have no way to really argue with that since I lost, outside of what KataGo tells me. And it could always be argued that I couldn't play the endgame as well as KataGo, so I could still have lost the game even without the blunder of getting disconnected. If I had won, maybe I could have shown that I was ahead. But as it stands, it just looks like I played poorly from early on.
Given this ambiguity, it makes the analysis of the middle game seem meaningless. All that can definitively matter is the end game result, whether I won or lost. But I lost.
To be fair, if I let KataGo really churn on the point where I tenuki and avoid getting cut: Like if I answered, like above, KataGo only has black at 57% after 20k playouts. This confirms my thought that I was ahead at this point in the game, but not by much. The game is still within range for white to win, even without big mistakes by me.
The big plummet in win percentage started with this sequence, as mentioned earlier: It was still recoverable (KataGo says I'm around 80% here), but the concept led me down to a worse position.
---
So I'm a little less angry now, I guess. Still kind of angry, but less. So what can I learn from this experience?
1.) A careless blunder like this can make me really wonder about what the result of the game would be if I hadn't made the blunder. It's a very high cost.
2.) I had some psychological feeling of arrogance, I think, which led to the blunder. Here: White has already played these moves: And I read that his attempts here did not work. So my general attitude was: "This guy has already lost the game. And he's screwing around in my territory with moves that don't work.
When he played the bend, I read these sequences in about a second or two: and After those two quick reads, it confirmed my already biased thought that "This guy is just screwing around with moves that don't work.
In some sense, I was frustrated that he hadn't quit, and wanted to end it. My move was kind of like saying, "You want to just screw around with those local non working moves? Fine. I'll grab this center area and increase my lead!"
Because of this *feeling*, I missed the move at 'a'. I didn't take the guy seriously. And after playing for a long time and feeling that I had maintained a lead... I was frustrated and wanted to end it.
So I guess it boils down to:
* A little bit of arrogance
* A little bit of impatience
And as a result, back to learning point #1, above, I can only wonder and play with winrates on KataGo to wonder what "would" have happened.
I guess if I consolidate this into a single learning point, I'd say this:
* The game of go is long, and I need to be patient until the result has been absolutely and irreversibly decided. That only happens once the game result has been officially set.
I think this learning point extends beyond blunders. It also applies to areas where I rush to attack my opponent's group, or make an overplay to try to get a 20 point lead. This impatience leads to mistakes. And those mistakes lead to my loss. And my loss leads to this bad feeling I'm having right now.
If transitivity applies, I suppose: impatience leads to this bad feeling I'm having right now.
So let's not be impatient.
Instead, he said I can just surround from the outside and make a big center shape.
I agree with him up until there. But he also said that white was comfortably winning here: Since the capture of the marked stones is big. I don't know if I agree with this. First, my own sense of the game is that black is ahead. I believe I have more points, and that's what I thought during the game, too.
Second, I let KataGo churn on this position for a little while. Usually I just skim through to get a rough idea, but even after 20k playouts, it notes black as ahead by 86.3%.
I maintain that my problems came with this sequence: And then getting cut off like I did in the game. I don't think that white was ahead before cutting me off.
Indeed, before the marked move above, if I let KataGo run up to 20k playouts, it puts black at 94.1%. I think it's safe to say that black was winning here.
So not only did I make a silly blunder that cost me the game, but my friend/reviewer/teacher even thinks I was losing before that blunder. And I have no way to really argue with that since I lost, outside of what KataGo tells me. And it could always be argued that I couldn't play the endgame as well as KataGo, so I could still have lost the game even without the blunder of getting disconnected. If I had won, maybe I could have shown that I was ahead. But as it stands, it just looks like I played poorly from early on.
Given this ambiguity, it makes the analysis of the middle game seem meaningless. All that can definitively matter is the end game result, whether I won or lost. But I lost.
To be fair, if I let KataGo really churn on the point where I tenuki and avoid getting cut: Like if I answered, like above, KataGo only has black at 57% after 20k playouts. This confirms my thought that I was ahead at this point in the game, but not by much. The game is still within range for white to win, even without big mistakes by me.
The big plummet in win percentage started with this sequence, as mentioned earlier: It was still recoverable (KataGo says I'm around 80% here), but the concept led me down to a worse position.
---
So I'm a little less angry now, I guess. Still kind of angry, but less. So what can I learn from this experience?
1.) A careless blunder like this can make me really wonder about what the result of the game would be if I hadn't made the blunder. It's a very high cost.
2.) I had some psychological feeling of arrogance, I think, which led to the blunder. Here: White has already played these moves: And I read that his attempts here did not work. So my general attitude was: "This guy has already lost the game. And he's screwing around in my territory with moves that don't work.
When he played the bend, I read these sequences in about a second or two: and After those two quick reads, it confirmed my already biased thought that "This guy is just screwing around with moves that don't work.
In some sense, I was frustrated that he hadn't quit, and wanted to end it. My move was kind of like saying, "You want to just screw around with those local non working moves? Fine. I'll grab this center area and increase my lead!"
Because of this *feeling*, I missed the move at 'a'. I didn't take the guy seriously. And after playing for a long time and feeling that I had maintained a lead... I was frustrated and wanted to end it.
So I guess it boils down to:
* A little bit of arrogance
* A little bit of impatience
And as a result, back to learning point #1, above, I can only wonder and play with winrates on KataGo to wonder what "would" have happened.
I guess if I consolidate this into a single learning point, I'd say this:
* The game of go is long, and I need to be patient until the result has been absolutely and irreversibly decided. That only happens once the game result has been officially set.
I think this learning point extends beyond blunders. It also applies to areas where I rush to attack my opponent's group, or make an overplay to try to get a 20 point lead. This impatience leads to mistakes. And those mistakes lead to my loss. And my loss leads to this bad feeling I'm having right now.
If transitivity applies, I suppose: impatience leads to this bad feeling I'm having right now.
So let's not be impatient.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Earlier in the game I planned just B14. I guess there's some aji after those two stones are there.Shaddy wrote:i'm surprised you weren't worried about the c13 cut. it looks pretty scary to me
Before this sequence:
there's no issue, I think: Not much there, I think.
But after the sequence where I screwed stuff up, I can see it can become an issue.
Like here, if white cut instead of turn: It's a little bit of a problem, now.
I think the same psychological problem remains: I didn't think much of his threats, because I had already assumed victory. Instead, I should have been careful and thought about the aji more. I needed patience.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
So this week and next are pretty busy weeks for me for go. First, I'm participating the in the e-congress: https://www.gocongress.org/2020/content_categories/71
It's not the same as a regular congress, but it's still a lot of fun. In addition, I'm doing Inseong's 2 week long summer stage, which is basically like a regular month of AYD packed into two weeks. I didn't study as much as I wanted to. I'm "on-call" for work this week, and that means I can be paged for work. A few times this week, I was paged in the middle of the night, so I'm not as rested as I'd like to be.
Despite that, I'm having fun.
Here is Game 1 of the "Open":
Checking briefly with KataGo, the game was somewhat even until a pretty big mistake that I made here: KataGo expected white to play here: But instead, white played this: Now, suddenly, KataGo thought it was OK for black, it seems. In the game, I considered this atari: However, after white connects, it leaves me open to double atari: So I stopped considering that sequence. My mind said, "double atari? Bad. Think of something else."
But KataGo, at least with the few playouts that I played, showed this sequence as being good for black: Looking at it now, it's kind of clear: white captured a stone, but that isn't even a real eye. And black has lots of territory from it. White also just has a weak group, now.
I didn't do that in the game, and got behind locally. I caught up again in a big way after I killed white's group.
--
So I guess my big fault here, at least with this second part, is that just because I read that I'm in "double atari" or something, I should more consciously evaluate whether it's good or bad. That being said, I have to cut off reading at some point. But anyway, just because I encounter something like "double atari" or "head of two stones" or "empty triangle", I guess I should keep reading.
In any case, done for today. Looking forward to tomorrow's go activities!
It's not the same as a regular congress, but it's still a lot of fun. In addition, I'm doing Inseong's 2 week long summer stage, which is basically like a regular month of AYD packed into two weeks. I didn't study as much as I wanted to. I'm "on-call" for work this week, and that means I can be paged for work. A few times this week, I was paged in the middle of the night, so I'm not as rested as I'd like to be.
Despite that, I'm having fun.
Here is Game 1 of the "Open":
Checking briefly with KataGo, the game was somewhat even until a pretty big mistake that I made here: KataGo expected white to play here: But instead, white played this: Now, suddenly, KataGo thought it was OK for black, it seems. In the game, I considered this atari: However, after white connects, it leaves me open to double atari: So I stopped considering that sequence. My mind said, "double atari? Bad. Think of something else."
But KataGo, at least with the few playouts that I played, showed this sequence as being good for black: Looking at it now, it's kind of clear: white captured a stone, but that isn't even a real eye. And black has lots of territory from it. White also just has a weak group, now.
I didn't do that in the game, and got behind locally. I caught up again in a big way after I killed white's group.
--
So I guess my big fault here, at least with this second part, is that just because I read that I'm in "double atari" or something, I should more consciously evaluate whether it's good or bad. That being said, I have to cut off reading at some point. But anyway, just because I encounter something like "double atari" or "head of two stones" or "empty triangle", I guess I should keep reading.
In any case, done for today. Looking forward to tomorrow's go activities!
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Game 2 of the "Open"
The big highlight I'll point out is this move: There actually might have been a problem before this, but I was totally oblivious to this cut: The problem was there earlier, too, but I think my tenuki to the top left corner is kind of a psychological problem. I was thinking, "yeah, I beat this guy. Let's finish it", and this kind of overconfidence led me to lack the care needed to fully appreciate the board state.
Too overconfident... I got lucky to survive here, but it might not be that way next game. It's the McMahon pairing, so my next opponent won't let me off so easily.
The big highlight I'll point out is this move: There actually might have been a problem before this, but I was totally oblivious to this cut: The problem was there earlier, too, but I think my tenuki to the top left corner is kind of a psychological problem. I was thinking, "yeah, I beat this guy. Let's finish it", and this kind of overconfidence led me to lack the care needed to fully appreciate the board state.
Too overconfident... I got lucky to survive here, but it might not be that way next game. It's the McMahon pairing, so my next opponent won't let me off so easily.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Some other general notes about this, which I'm gonna check with AI:
Position 1 Not sure if the 3-3 is good with black's side stone here. I'm all 3-3 and stuff since computer be like "3-3 is cool", but not sure if it applies on this board.
Position 2 Here, I was at a loss as to where to play. My thoughts:
1. Is right side urgent? It's a big moyo. Should I reduce it now?
2. Gospel says to approach 3-4 points early.
3. But approaching 3-4 isn't as desirable as on an empty board with the low position on the bottom.
4. Approach or invade upper left might be good, too...
After thinking awhile, I figured the right side can't turn into territory in one move, so let's rule that out. After that, decide between 3-4 and 4-4... 3-4 is low, but maybe I can play there and get both 3-4 and 4-4 in top left. If black ignores 3-4 approach, press is nice against the right side influence...
So that was my thought.
I'll check these two questions with KataGo.
Position 1 Not sure if the 3-3 is good with black's side stone here. I'm all 3-3 and stuff since computer be like "3-3 is cool", but not sure if it applies on this board.
Position 2 Here, I was at a loss as to where to play. My thoughts:
1. Is right side urgent? It's a big moyo. Should I reduce it now?
2. Gospel says to approach 3-4 points early.
3. But approaching 3-4 isn't as desirable as on an empty board with the low position on the bottom.
4. Approach or invade upper left might be good, too...
After thinking awhile, I figured the right side can't turn into territory in one move, so let's rule that out. After that, decide between 3-4 and 4-4... 3-4 is low, but maybe I can play there and get both 3-4 and 4-4 in top left. If black ignores 3-4 approach, press is nice against the right side influence...
So that was my thought.
I'll check these two questions with KataGo.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I reviewed a little bit with AI. Considering my questions..
1. It seems the AI doesn't really care about black's formation on the right, and still thinks 3-3 is fine.
2. It likes approaching 3-4 first, just like gospel says.
3. It did NOT like that I ignored the pincer. It wanted me to play here:
I don't know these variations very well, so I guess I should study them.
1. It seems the AI doesn't really care about black's formation on the right, and still thinks 3-3 is fine.
2. It likes approaching 3-4 first, just like gospel says.
3. It did NOT like that I ignored the pincer. It wanted me to play here:
I don't know these variations very well, so I guess I should study them.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
"Open" Game 3:
It was a loss. But without looking at AI, it's not really clear to me where I blundered. I respect this guy. I think he really challenged me and deserved to win.
It was a loss. But without looking at AI, it's not really clear to me where I blundered. I respect this guy. I think he really challenged me and deserved to win.
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