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#239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=10611

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Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:50 am
by SoDesuNe
Interesting... Right now I really wanna take that stone... RRREALLY!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X X . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X O O . O . . X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O 2 7 . . . 1 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Not very convincing. Although my corner is now Aji free and I got Sente... White lives kinda big, though... But not taking the stone now kinda contradicts my reason to play there in the first place...


Or better something like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X X . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X O O . O 3 4 X a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . 7 2 1 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 8 . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
White can cut at 'a' but since he had a chance to live in the corner before, I feel it's not such a big deal.

Slow and steady would be like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X X . . . a X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X 4 . X O O . O 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O 3 . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I guess he could try some shenanigans like :w64: at 'a' or something...

Sente would be great, though, although that presents us with the question: Where to play next? I feel like still ignoring his probe and play in the center.

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:11 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@Topazg:
topazg wrote:
My poor, poor R4 stone.
Yes, now that you have provoked Q2 by black, the R4 aji is almost gone. :(

Why was K3 so important to you? When you played 56 to save it, did you consider abandoning it?

I suspect that this small group on the lower side may cost you more than it is worth.

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:34 pm
by topazg
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Yes, now that you have provoked Q2 by black, the R4 aji is almost gone. :(

Why was K3 so important to you? When you played 56 to save it, did you consider abandoning it?

I suspect that this small group on the lower side may cost you more than it is worth.
Yes, I did, my original plan was this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm50 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X 5 . |
$$ | . 1 X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . 7 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . 9 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X 6 . . a . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X O 8 . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
But I can't even cleanly save N3 with something like this, and certainly not without crippling R4 that way instead. So if I let Black get something like "a" as well, the entire lower side is basically Black's, which is just devastatingly huge.

I think basically I realised that my big plan of building the middle at the expense of the lower side with the marked White stone was basically complete pants, and I'm trying to salvage what little I can. I'll do a damage assessment once the dust settles :P

On the bright side, if I do magically get sente to play in the top right, I'll feel reasonably ok I think. On the other hand, sente here is ... well, it's not looking all that likely!

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 1:05 am
by SoDesuNe
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X X . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:42 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 :b1: :w100:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X , X O X X . . . . . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X X . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
There's little as painful as making tiny, sad, pathetic life, over the course of a few days, in a Malkovich game :blackeye:

On the other hand, even if I do end in gote, at least he hasn't responded to my top right probe yet. I may have condemned my R5 stone (sorry for calling it R4 earlier, I've only just noticed!) to a sorry death too. I have no idea how I'm supposed to look after that guy now. Maybe R8 or something may utilise some aji from it, but even if so, it's going to have to wait a while or it'll just risk being yet another slow, sad, pathetic life at best.... le sigh.
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