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Re: Amazon army
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:08 am
by pajaro
Who is the instructor? Does it matter?
In this side of the world we don't have the chance to know about these details, and in the end, it's all about results.
And results matter, but that's not all. For example, today, Tsuji Hana 2-dan lost to Nakamura Sumire 2-dan (Senko Cup prelims). Both became pros by special recommendation (it had a fancy name, but...), and both are now 2-dan. Sumire is getting all the attention, but the result today was as close as half point. Really close. This result says that Sumire will play the next round and Hana won't. But the game says that the player who is 4-6 now can face the player that is 14-5.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:31 pm
by Harleqin
If I read this right, Fujisawa Rina advanced to the round of 8 in the Tengen:
https://nordot.app/883633747611205632?c ... 1839462401
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:52 pm
by CDavis7M
Results aren't posted to the tournament page yet but that must be the case. I was looking at the two players she might be facing next and I thought I recognized Ryu Shikun. Turns out I've seen his YouTube channel in my suggestions.
Good luck to Fujisawa. If she can win again I wonder if we'd get a "celebrity" YouTube stream. I wonder how the association decides which games are important enough.
Not Amazon related but I'm interested to see if Iyama plays Cho U in the Tengen challenger qualifying.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:42 am
by John Fairbairn
Who is the instructor? Does it matter?
In this side of the world we don't have the chance to know about these details, and in the end, it's all about results.
And results matter, but that's not all. For example, today, Tsuji Hana 2-dan lost to Nakamura Sumire 2-dan (Senko Cup prelims). Both became pros by special recommendation
Well, the very fact that both these players became pros on the basis of their instructors' recommendations, and not on the basis of results, show that instructors matter
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:37 pm
by Elom0
John Fairbairn wrote:We have a new private in the ranks: Suzukawa Natsumi 1-dan. She's already 18, and is based in the Nagoya Branch of the Nihon Ki-in rather than the prestigious Tokyo one, but she did (taking B lack) beat an 8-dan man in a game I recently looked at.
The commentary on that game predicted a great future for her. I suspect there was a bit of journalistic whimsy there, based on her name (鈴川七海 - a tinkling bell in a river floating out to the seven seas), but the commentator went to the trouble of asking the insei instructor in Nagoya about her, and two things of special interest came up.
One is that Natsumi is apparently a ferociously hard worker. There's been a few references to hard work (quickly crosses himself!) recently in references to female players. It's almost as if this is being seen as a new feature in women's go. That would marry with what Kobayashi Izumi said in a recent interview I described elsewhere on SL - females are now starting to play go earlier and so have more time to work hard on go before the burdens of family life kick in.
The other is that Natsumi is considered especially strong at the endgame. I don't recall ever seeing "strong endgame" and "woman" in the same sentence before, so that's interesting in itself. But even more fascinating is the inference that the instructor must consider other young pros relatively weak at the endgame! So all we amateurs needn't feel so bad.
I'm fairly surprised at that, I thought that Lee Changho made the endgame popular and all pros everywhere mastered the endgame, which is why he's not as dominant anymore. If Cho Hyeyeon's style is anything like Lee Changho's then having the one person he couldn't beat, Rui Naiwei as her main opponent in the female competition is the harshest luck. And especially Choi Jung who is a master of endgame, so I'm surprised that female Japanese professionals aren't associated with strong endgame suggesting they didn't take to studying it in Japan as seriously as the Koreans or???
It's funny when we say that even amateurs can have pro-level opening, based 10 or so moves, but it seems it's more relevant to say even amateurs can have pro-level endgame since it would likely be for more than 10 moves near the end of the game, especially if you're an expert on statistics like Bill Spight
John Fairbairn wrote:Who is the instructor? Does it matter?
In this side of the world we don't have the chance to know about these details, and in the end, it's all about results.
And results matter, but that's not all. For example, today, Tsuji Hana 2-dan lost to Nakamura Sumire 2-dan (Senko Cup prelims). Both became pros by special recommendation
Well, the very fact that both these players became pros on the basis of their instructors' recommendations, and not on the basis of results, show that instructors matter
Seconded
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:31 am
by pajaro
Right, Rina won in the Tengen and is now top 8. A big landmark for the Army.
John Fairbairn wrote:Who is the instructor? Does it matter?
In this side of the world we don't have the chance to know about these details, and in the end, it's all about results.
And results matter, but that's not all. For example, today, Tsuji Hana 2-dan lost to Nakamura Sumire 2-dan (Senko Cup prelims). Both became pros by special recommendation
Well, the very fact that both these players became pros on the basis of their instructors' recommendations, and not on the basis of results, show that instructors matter
Well, it must matter, but... I had in mind that the promotion to pro has to be confirmed by 5 (?) pros, so it's not only the intructor's opinion.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:50 am
by John Fairbairn
Well, it must matter, but... I had in mind that the promotion to pro has to be confirmed by 5 (?) pros, so it's not only the intructor's opinion.
I'm guessing you may think an instructor is an amateur. Some are, like Sumire's mother. But
insei instructors are usually very strong pros. The most terrifyingly famous was Sugiuchi Masao, of whom tales are still told, but none of them treat it as sinecure.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:36 am
by pajaro
John Fairbairn wrote:Well, it must matter, but... I had in mind that the promotion to pro has to be confirmed by 5 (?) pros, so it's not only the intructor's opinion.
I'm guessing you may think an instructor is an amateur. Some are, like Sumire's mother. But
insei instructors are usually very strong pros. The most terrifyingly famous was Sugiuchi Masao, of whom tales are still told, but none of them treat it as sinecure.
No, I was thinking that an instructor is a veteran pro. Like in Hikaru no Go, there was an instructor for all insei. And each insei had a teacher (or not).
My idea was that the instructor can think that a insei has a good future, but the decision is up to the group of 5. Maybe, just speculating, the instructor nominates several candidates, and only a few are approved. Or maybe the instructor has a very good eye, (s)he knows the inseis, and the 5 pros confirm the candidate.
Sumire was not an insei, but his father is a pro. Maybe in her case, it was his father who nominated her. Or maybe, people in the NK were already following her.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:53 am
by pajaro
An interesting event for the Army:
the Senko Cuo starts tomorrow, with Fujisawa Rina, Ueno Asami, Ayami Suzuki,Xie Yimin and Nakamura Sumire in the Japanese team.
Also playing Yu Zhiying (China), Choi Jung (Korea) and Lu Yuhua (Taiwan).
This is an international tournament. Notice that there is another tournament by the same, in Japan. This one is also known as Female Saikyo.
Two interesting facts:
- This is the 4th edition, and the previous winners are only one player: Yu Zhiying
- Fujisawa Rina and Nakamura Sumire will be playing in the first round. This will be their first official game, and will be played before the important Meijin match (days 14, 16, and who knows if 18)
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:28 am
by Ferran
Meanwhile, Takao Shinji Vs Fujisawa Rina, shin ryūsei.
https://youtu.be/lMsC8UOsUnI
Take care
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:06 am
by Elom0
pajaro wrote:An interesting event for the Army:
the Senko Cuo starts tomorrow, with Fujisawa Rina, Ueno Asami, Ayami Suzuki,Xie Yimin and Nakamura Sumire in the Japanese team.
Also playing Yu Zhiying (China), Choi Jung (Korea) and Lu Yuhua (Taiwan).
This is an international tournament. Notice that there is another tournament by the same, in Japan. This one is also known as Female Saikyo.
Two interesting facts:
- This is the 4th edition, and the previous winners are only one player: Yu Zhiying
- Fujisawa Rina and Nakamura Sumire will be playing in the first round. This will be their first official game, and will be played before the important Meijin match (days 14, 16, and who knows if 18)
Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:20 am
by gazzawhite
Elom0 wrote:Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Has there ever been a Japanese winner of an international women's tournament?
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:27 am
by pajaro
Elom0 wrote:
Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Japan will have a winner, or not. The Taiwanese player is still standing, although she was behind for most of the game.
Things look promising, though. And if you compare to all previous editions, the improvement in astounding.
Good game for Sumire, who couldn't win against Rina, although it was close (B+2.5). If you watch the game in youtube, you can see that at first, Sumire is sitting in her chair, like in any game. But as the game goes on and when she loses chances, she starts touching her hair, moving on the chair... she couldn't hide her nervousness.
Rina, on the other hand, has a chance to win an international title, and a boost in morale. Whatever happens might have an impact in the upcoming match against Sumire.
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:17 am
by Elom0
gazzawhite wrote:Elom0 wrote:Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Has there ever been a Japanese winner of an international women's tournament?
pajaro wrote:Elom0 wrote:
Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Japan will have a winner, or not. The Taiwanese player is still standing, although she was behind for most of the game.
Things look promising, though. And if you compare to all previous editions, the improvement in astounding.
Good game for Sumire, who couldn't win against Rina, although it was close (B+2.5). If you watch the game in youtube, you can see that at first, Sumire is sitting in her chair, like in any game. But as the game goes on and when she loses chances, she starts touching her hair, moving on the chair... she couldn't hide her nervousness.
Rina, on the other hand, has a chance to win an international title, and a boost in morale. Whatever happens might have an impact in the upcoming match against Sumire.
You're both right. History was made on the 8th! So we'll have to wait next year to see if Choi Jung can clinch the only major title in female go she hasn't won yet. Today however it was a Taiwan/Japan v Taiwan match and a Japan v Japan match on the 9th, with the Taiwanese match even up until near the end when Xie made two mistakes in a row, I mean what was so wrong with peep? And the Japanese game ending with resignation in the endgame. It seems that in Japanese female tournaments Fujisawa does better than Ueno, but in everything else Ueno Asami. I still remember when she was playing in the pro exam (and I guess that means Antti Törmänen has officially played two young stars of Japanese go).
Re: Amazon army
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:02 am
by gazzawhite
gazzawhite wrote:Elom0 wrote:Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying both out, Japan will have the first international women's tournament winner in many years, perhaps even the first ever female go champion from Taiwan . . ?
Has there ever been a Japanese winner of an international women's tournament?
I did some research to try to answer my own question, and the
only occasion I could find where a Japanese woman pro won an event that wasn't exclusively Japanese was in 1998 and 1999 when Chinen Kaori won an NEC-sponsored best-of-3 match between the Chinese women's national champion and the Japanese women's Honinbo. So if Ueno Asami wins tomorrow, it will be the first in 23 years for a Japanese woman.