103. EdLee vs topazg

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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O 1 O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The best aji.

Before :b79:, I was expecting B to push first;
with the resulting cuts, W is much thinner and the aji is not good:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . X . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . 2 . .
$$ | . . . O O 1 O .
$$ | . . . X X X O .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]
For example, even after the ponnuki with :w8:,
there's still funny business with (a)...(d), etc.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation 1
$$ | . X . X . O X O .
$$ | . . . X . X O O .
$$ | . . . . . . X . .
$$ | . . X . . X . . O
$$ | . X . . d . . a .
$$ | . X O . . 2 . . .
$$ | . O . . c O 1 . .
$$ | . . b O O X O 6 .
$$ | . . . X X X O 5 8
$$ | . . . . . . 3 4 .
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
Or, B still has (e) later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation 2
$$ | . X . X . O X O .
$$ | . . . X . X O O .
$$ | . . . . . . X . .
$$ | . . X . . X . . O
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . e . 1 . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . O . .
$$ | . X . X X X O . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
Given my earlier mis-read (Post #171),
I would've had to play :w3: after :w1:, and there's a weakness at (f):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation 3
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . f . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . . . . O . .
$$ | . . . X X 1 3 5 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 6 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Or:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation 4
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . . . . O . .
$$ | . . . X X . 1 5 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 4 2 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Or we're back to the original push with cuts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation 5
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . 7 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O 6 5 . . O . .
$$ | . . . X X 4 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 2 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]
So it seems W should be satisfied with the current local result. :-|
(p)
Yes, :w80: is the best aji, and yes, B should've pushed first, to make 2 cuts for W.
Last edited by EdLee on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

@Both players: I just unhid some possibilities that you didn't take. ( Posts 173, 175, 178 and 179 )
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Thanks Joaz. (The top of Post #173 is not quite ready to be unhidden yet...
I stopped reading immediately.
I'd better not read any of them until you double check they're safe first. :))
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O 2 . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O 1 O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Now, let's see if I can get the result I want out of this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O 2 . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O a . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . 6 . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O 1 O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
'a' and 'b' are gote for both of us, and close in size (although 'a' is slightly bigger). So, I'm going to treat them at miai. If I can get to this board position, I think I'm about 10 points ahead.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

A bit unexpected. :b81: is not exactly small, but it just doesn't seem quite big or urgent,
as the (a) area seems mostly neutral. Unless I missed something. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O 2 . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm82 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Candidate (b) for :w80: (Post #180), which was not sente at the time,
but is now sente, I think. Side effects:
- Keep the :bc: group separated (in sente);
- Even if :b1: now, W still ends in sente (I think):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . X . . X . . O .
$$ | . B . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X 2 X X X O . . .
$$ | . . 3 . . 1 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
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Loons
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Loons »

Hey Ed;
You mentioned you were considering b4 for 80. Could you share a little of your reading concerning that? I find the play after white b4 black tenuki confusing.

Also more relevantly;

What do you see as the big points on this board ?

Thanks.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm82 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Yeah, he can push and cut, but only by giving me sente again, which may be points on the bottom or it may be one of the other big points I highlighted - either way, bigger than the loss of C3. I'll be surprised if he doesn't block, let me connect (fixing the push and cut), and then return to my last point, as it's increased the aji around there in my favour quite a lot. I may even by able to find a way of saving those two stones on the left in sente.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Immediate concern is to try to end in sente here.
Loons,
Actually I did not read that far for :w1:, because it seemed I would get the bad aji from the cuts and lose sente:
(I guess topazg and I have been eyeing the same big points forever :)...)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . C X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O C . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . C . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . C . |
$$ | . X . . . . C . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O . O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm84 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
If :b2: tenuki, there are some choices:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X a X X X O . . .
$$ | . . c . . b X 1 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
If :b2:, W keeps the liberty and a ko threat:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X . X X X O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . X 1 . .
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
If :w84: at the push :wc: directly:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X W X X X O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
Then, If :b7: at (a)...(f), seems dead.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X W X X X O . a c e . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 2 3 5 X 1 b d f . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b3: tenuki, :b11: (g), :w12: (h), :b13: (j) life.
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | h O . . . . . . . .
$$ | g j O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X W X X X O . . .
$$ | 5 4 1 8 . 0 X 2 . .
$$ | 9 6 7 . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b3: tenuki, :b11: (k) connects.
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | k O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | 7 X W X X X O . . .
$$ | 6 4 1 8 . 0 X 2 . .
$$ | 9 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
If B replies, we're back to the :w1: :b2: exchange:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O
$$ | . X 1 X X X O . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . . X 3 . .
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm84 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
That fixes the push and cut.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm86 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
On this board I think I can only keep sente for a very short time.
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm86 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
How mean, I wanted to get that :D
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

My prediction:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm86 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O X . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . 3 . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

I sincerely apologise for my selfishness, but I'm going to choose to resign this game as well rather than spoil it through a lack of thought and care.

Ed, you are far stronger than 4k in my opinion, and for the majority of this game I think you simply outplayed me. With a game of a move in the left middle to the control of the game for the next few moves, you had me hook line and sinker. Allowing me to cut at the top and live in the corner in sente I think put you slightly behind, but I don't feel I deserved to be ahead.

Congratulations, and thank you for a fascinating game :)
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