115 - robinz v. 1986

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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X 1 |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
OK, I missed this - it stops me playing as I wanted to in my last post. But, while I've not read everything out yet, this descent must be right. White has 2 weak groups right next to each other, and one of them must die now. Either I think will be fine now (if white manages to live with the right-hand group then I will certainly get to seal it in, probably in sente), and I can even aim to kill both :D
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc112 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X . O 1 O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
there is nothing appealing about playing with that group no more
at least for right now, left me finish this upper left corner and see
how the game flows a little bit more
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm113 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Well, no choice here - at least not locally. I suppose if I thought the fate of the right-hand white group depended on who got the next move, I would play there now, but having read a few lines I'm pretty confident I can still kill it.
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Redundant
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by Redundant »

I'm surprised neither player has noticed that the closest the corner can come to living is an L+1, and black has sente (and the descent), so white dies. This sort of life and death should become automatic to get into the low sdks.
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lightvector
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by lightvector »

Redundant wrote:I'm surprised neither player has noticed that the closest the corner can come to living is an L+1, and black has sente (and the descent), so white dies. This sort of life and death should become automatic to get into the low sdks.
It dies? Am I missing something obvious?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 4 . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X 3 O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Redundant
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by Redundant »

Sigh, I messed up who had sente after the descent. I have no idea how I made 1d ...
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm114 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X 1 O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
there are about 5 ways this can go i counted :lol:
his bet bet here is playing at n18
im stil not showing variations
i dont want to jynx my corner too :)

there score looks about even so im planning on fighting for every point on the board

:rambo:
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm115 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
And again, the only move. I've only just realised that white can start some complications with M16, but I have a few reasonable-looking choices for answering that, so there's no reason to be afraid to play the obvious move here. (I'm also surprised he didn't play Q18 while it was sente - now there could be more trouble for his corner than there might otherwise have been.)
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm116 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X 1 . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
he has to play o16 here to prevent me from connecting with my one space jump after he does that i will go from there
im just taking it slow and steady 
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm117 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . 1 X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Another no-brainer - the last thing I want is for white to connect his corner to some of his other stones in the vicinity. I am aware that now I may have to watch that my wall doesn't get shut in and short of liberties, but I'm pretty confident I'm OK in most if not all variations.
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . 1 X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
right here m16 is his best bet to stop me from capturing the four black stone on the top side

im just going step by step here taking it slow
standing still means going backwards
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robinz
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . 1 X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Just keeping white sealed in, but more solidly than with the direct block at M16. I will surely now get a great result in this corner (either killing white, or if not then at least keeping sente), provided I keep my wall alive. If white doesn't prevent them, then either O14, capturing a stone, or Q14, achieving a connection to the south (while also clearing up some aji) should see to that. The only way I think white can render both ineffective is to play Q14 himself. Then my position does look a little hairy, but I seem to come out happily in the following variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . 1 X O 3 . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . 8 4 5 2 O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 6 9 . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
White of course has other options (most notably for :w24:), but I don't see any that cause me any serious problems. Famous last words, no doubt :lol:

(I should finally note that the push-and-cut at M16 doesn't seem to work yet, although it adds aji for white to use in the above variation, and doubtless some others. I still think I'm OK, but it's one more thing to watch.)
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm120 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . 1 . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I'll explain later I don't have the time sorry guys
standing still means going backwards
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Hidden until this fight is over,
For beginners: if W resists with :w2:, B connects out with :b3::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$----------------------+
$$. . . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X X X . . . . |
$$. . . X O O O O O O . |
$$. X . . O X X X X O . |
$$. . . X X O . . X X X |
$$. O . . . 3 O 1 O O . |
$$. . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . X O X O . . |
$$. , O . X . X X X O . |[/go]
If W connects with :w4::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b7: at :bc:, snapback
$$----------------------+
$$. . . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X X X . . . . |
$$. . . X O O O O O O . |
$$. X . . O X X X X O . |
$$. . . X X O 4 6 X X X |
$$. O . . . X O B O O . |
$$. . . . . . 5 O . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . X O X O . . |
$$. , O . X . X X X O . |[/go]
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1986
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Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Post by 1986 »

well I can't put up variations right now but I'm pretty sure that's dead

I been sitting here thinking and I'm pretty sure

:scratch: Not much of a explaniation I know

But I'm thinking about what else to do

So much to do :study:
standing still means going backwards
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