Sente is psychological. You always have it if you want it. This game is a great example where you need to believe you have it more often
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:07 pm
by Kirby
topazg wrote:For Kirby:
Sente is psychological. You always have it if you want it. This game is a great example where you need to believe you have it more often
Thanks for the tip, topazg. I guess that the only response I have to that is, "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" (not directed at you - it's just my feeling).
Anyway, I'm going to think about the board for a bit before making a move. I have been playing too quickly lately, I think.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:20 pm
by Kirby
I think that I am just going to resign. I will likely learn more from reading the comments of this game and reviewing it than by trying to win in the end.
I would like to go over all of the comments that everyone has, but after that, will you play me at 4 stones, Magicwand?
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:23 pm
by Magicwand
thank you for the game. set up the board. and please lets not go to 5 stones.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:49 pm
by Chew Terr
Just from your comments, Kirby, you would probably play better if you pretended you were playing me... I'm not good enough to comment on any of the actual plays, but the psychology aspect was evident.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:53 pm
by Kirby
Chew Terr wrote:Just from your comments, Kirby, you would probably play better if you pretended you were playing me... I'm not good enough to comment on any of the actual plays, but the psychology aspect was evident.
The "psychology aspect"? Could you elaborate?
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:03 pm
by Chew Terr
Sorry, didn't mean anything bad by it, I just recognize some of the patterns I fall into in large-handicap games against stronger players. You get scared, and give up sente too easily, as topazg mentioned. I find myself afraid to play pincers and tricky moves when I know my opponent is stronger. Or I try to use handicap stones to make 'easy' territory, which never seems to work for me. I seem to play best against stronger players when I play very solidly and firmly, as though the game is even. I have to convince myself that my opponent is human, and if I feel my corner is safe, I need to leave it and take the initiative. Long story short, I seem to play much worse when I am trying to adapt for a difference in strength. Whether you're a fan or not, there's a chapter in Kageyama's about this specifically. If you play with a different spirit to turn handicaps into 'safe wins', you're setting yourself up for a fall. You're pretty good at this game yourself, so don't let yourself forget it. =)
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:09 pm
by Kirby
Chew Terr wrote:Sorry, didn't mean anything bad by it, I just recognize some of the patterns I fall into in large-handicap games against stronger players. You get scared, and give up sente too easily, as topazg mentioned. I find myself afraid to play pincers and tricky moves when I know my opponent is stronger. Or I try to use handicap stones to make 'easy' territory, which never seems to work for me. I seem to play best against stronger players when I play very solidly and firmly, as though the game is even. I have to convince myself that my opponent is human, and if I feel my corner is safe, I need to leave it and take the initiative. Long story short, I seem to play much worse when I am trying to adapt for a difference in strength. Whether you're a fan or not, there's a chapter in Kageyama's about this specifically. If you play with a different spirit to turn handicaps into 'safe wins', you're setting yourself up for a fall. You're pretty good at this game yourself, so don't let yourself forget it. =)
I was not offended. I will think about what you have said. Thank you very much.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:32 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Not too long ago, a 2 or 3d gave me some stones on KGS. He unexpectedly resigned after I managed to catch some stones. Looking at the board after the game, I realized that the white thickness I'd been so worried about a few moves ago was really just a few lonely stones scattered here and there. I've since had a different outlook on being black in handicap games.
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:36 pm
by Bill Spight
Kirby wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:Just from your comments, Kirby, you would probably play better if you pretended you were playing me... I'm not good enough to comment on any of the actual plays, but the psychology aspect was evident.
The "psychology aspect"? Could you elaborate?
I am reminded of a saying from when I was a martial arts student:
"When you are sparring with a child, pretend he is a master, When you are sparring with a master, pretend that he is a child."
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:56 pm
by Harleqin
I think that you lost the first handicap stone getting enclosed in the top right, the second getting enclosed in the top left, and the third getting enclosed in the centre. I believe that your behaviour on the top totally neglected the stones at the bottom---you should not say "I'll grab territory, because my handicap stones will reduce your influence" but "I connect to my hoshi stones in order to use them".
So, for example, move 4 should jump back to the side hoshi, and move 6 should play either the tobi or a high pincer.
Now it's time to play this move, I think. It is big for both white and black. I don't have any tricky moves to reduce white's influence right now - but I don't think I need any. I'm going to win on territory alone!
My feeling is that this is an unwise approach. It may be successful at 3 stones, but. . . . Black has already gone for peanuts in the top right corner, while apparently letting his pincer stone die a dog's death. I believe in sacrifice, but really!
IMO, this is more like it. keeps White from expanding his framework here, and calls, albeit distantly, to . It also threatens to make a nice framework on the left side.
Edit: Unhidden.
I don't really understand this. If I am going to try to play territorially, isn't it inconsistent to break up the framework?
I feel like the 3-3 is worth a lot of points. Is my intuition just bad?
i think i can secure my points now... solid two marked stone on right will limit black's growth somewhat. i dont see anyplace for black to get big points. i think now i can match points to points and influence to influence. one marked black stone in the middle will be attacked and he wont have any big sides or corner. almost an even game.
i have some time now so i will comment on kerby's game. as i explained earlier black lost few points. now by defending corner he lose aji and sente. too painful. so he must achieve sente by exchanging 1 and 2.(exchange is necessary to protect the corner) after that something like 3 will limit white's growth.
and also why he answer my shoulder move was wrong. white is showing a sign of growth (like hulk) and he helped me grow even bigger by giveing me a push. below is a picture that i would've played. i still dont like white's moyo but it is much better than Kerby's choice.
is he serious??? can he not see that white is growing uncontrolablely? 10 out of 10 players over 5 dan will play 2. 100 out of 100 will not answer at "a"
another mistake. black can not play this way and expect to win. i think he believes he has advantage because of 3 stone handy. he already lost more than 1 stone. i would have went in deep as 1. it is not easy to attack with cap because of a,b aji. and i will not draw boundary to secure my point. (i probably tenuki) but he has to play at least 1. it is that urgent.
to: daniel_the_smith and others see what happens if you say you like my comment? you will get more comments
Isn't the aji from R17 in the first diagram dangerous?
Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:16 pm
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
this game Kerby's mind is not functioning properly. i remember a friend of mine who takes 3 stone played me series of game with changing handycap on each defeat. he lost on 7 stones and 8 stones and wen down to 9 stones. after the defeat your minds plays trick on you and play over defensive. i dont know what he has in his mind..but i think it is a perfect timing for him to probe as below. but since he is playing aji keshi the probe is not effective as before.
The marked moves are moves I'd rather lose a handicap game than play. I'm sure I couldn't give Kirby any stones, but seeing those moves would make me very happy as white in a handicap game.
I agree that the tengen attachment was a bad move. I am curious about what I should play here, though. White's influence is quite large at this point. Have I already lost the game here?
Black has already lost one stone of his advantage, if not more.
keeps White from expanding his framework here, and calls, albeit distantly, to 
. It also threatens to make a nice framework on the left side.