PlaySlow

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:04 am

Yes, there are many ways into black's right side formation. The 2 space jump is thin. If you compare it to the more common one space jump, which then leaves a 3 space gap to the middle hoshi stone then there is no longer a big gap and small gap with the invasion being easier in the big gap, but you have many medium sized gaps to choose from. Attach and crosscut or counter hane is a common way to break a 2 space jump. And if the 2 space jumps did secure the territory, don't you think strong players would play them more instead of the tighter one space jumps? I've marked a few places you could start operations in black's framework.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 44 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . O . . . O X . M . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . X M . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X M . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X M M . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . M . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . M . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . M . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . X O O . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And some example sequences:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W a/b miai, W healthy $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . O . . . O X . 2 a . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . X 1 . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . b 3 . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W a/b miai, W healthy, notice how marked stone 2 space jump is in a bad place compared to one space jump with respect to blocking at c after white a $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . O . . . O X . 3 . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . X 1 . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 a . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . O . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . X O O . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W a simple example of thinness of 2 space jump (4 is probably not a good idea, and maybe 7 should atari first), cutting off corner. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . O . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . X O O . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:09 am

@UBERDUDE many thanks for structured explanation! That's most helpful!
@Edlee, You are right but i generally die at these kind of invasions:/

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:43 am

PlaySlow wrote: @Edlee, You are right but i generally die at these kind of invasions:/

Typically with these invasions, if successful, some of the invading stones die. If you lose all of your stones, it may be because you are trying to save all of them.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:22 am

I have thought a lot before posting these 3 games to L19 since I feel I am stealing your time. I am in far worse shape that I was in 2 months ago.
3 Games, all lost.

Also I am solving Tsumego with less accuracy. Maybe I should play more games to gain experience. Because generally I feel like i'm in a study trap. I only study and solve tsumego, but rarely play games.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:19 am

1 more game, i started with a bad mistake but somehow he made a bigger one and quit.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:29 am

Bill Spight wrote:
PlaySlow wrote: @Edlee, You are right but i generally die at these kind of invasions:/
Typically with these invasions, if successful, some of the invading stones die. If you lose all of your stones, it may be because you are trying to save all of them.

I hope someday i'll manage these kind of invasions:) Generally when i try to imitate sabaki or something like that i give more territory

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:46 pm

In the first game, vs. pchien, the group at the top is dead at

. White just connects, and then has miai of the throw-in and extending to make a false eye.

At

, E and H are better than D, to give body to the moyo, but white does need to think about the group on the top living too. Right now, I think you have miai between getting into the center and living in the corner.

is on the wrong side. You're destroying your own potential in the bottom left.

At

just extend and black has issues.

connect at E15 and watch black die in the corner.

In the later fight surrounding the top group, white needs to look for black's weaknesses to counter attack rather than just getting bullied. White also needs to pay attention to broken shape, which comes up far too often.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:06 pm

For the last game,

is poorly placed against the chinese, IMO, because it's not low on the bottom side. The proper punishment, such as it is, for

is to let white need to come back to it later. Trying to do something directly is too much and gets black in trouble. Black could also extend along the bottom side with a two-space jump at some point, and white needs to defend, though maybe not right away.

is problematic, but the biggest issue is first, jumping in right away, and second, strengthening white with the peep, etc. to hurt the corner group. Black really should have let the

stone go later on rather than trying to save it.

I dislike. First, locally, it feels too close and should be a keima from the corner. Second, jumping out with a knights move puts a lot more pressure on the white group. Black doesn't need to worry about the upper right if white's right side group is in danger of dying.

You can't play terrible shape like this. White can crush black into a horrible shape and cut off the two stones.

J15. Where's white going to go? Further back, though, why play M15? It's both too far and too close (from the side and wall respectively).

White M18 is so gigantic unless white dies, that you should play it unless you are sure you can kill the whole. Aiming to have your groups cut apart is a terrible strategy. You lose territory on both sides, and you then have to think about how to live.

You've mentioned doing a lot of tsumego recently... Tsumego are good in a way, but don't matter too much compared to more basic things: you don't need to be good at tsumego if your groups don't get cut, because you won't have to worry about life. Anytime you are in a tsumego situation, your group is potentially being bullied, giving free strength or points to your opponent in exchange for living. Better to avoid it except when necessary.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:50 pm

skydyr wrote:In the first game, vs. pchien, the group at the top is dead at . White just connects, and then has miai of the throw-in and extending to make a false eye.

At , E and H are better than D, to give body to the moyo, but white does need to think about the group on the top living too. Right now, I think you have miai between getting into the center and living in the corner.

is on the wrong side. You're destroying your own potential in the bottom left.

At just extend and black has issues.

connect at E15 and watch black die in the corner.

In the later fight surrounding the top group, white needs to look for black's weaknesses to counter attack rather than just getting bullied. White also needs to pay attention to broken shape, which comes up far too often.

Reading your comments it is so clear right now.. But when reviewing the game i couldn't see these points (which some of them are very easy to find out) and that frightens me.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:02 am

skydyr wrote:
You can't play terrible shape like this. White can crush black into a horrible shape and cut off the two stones.

Thanks for detailed review but i couldnt understand

letting 2 black stones cut off. I have read it as i connected these.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:09 am

PlaySlow wrote:
skydyr wrote:
You can't play terrible shape like this. White can crush black into a horrible shape and cut off the two stones.
Thanks for detailed review but i couldnt understand letting 2 black stones cut off. I have read it as i connected these.

The first thing that occurs to me is after

is

at L6, then K6 J5 K5 K7 J6 K8.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:56 am

dfan wrote:
PlaySlow wrote:
skydyr wrote:
You can't play terrible shape like this. White can crush black into a horrible shape and cut off the two stones.
Thanks for detailed review but i couldnt understand letting 2 black stones cut off. I have read it as i connected these.
The first thing that occurs to me is after is at L6, then K6 J5 K5 K7 J6 K8.

Exactly. Black gets an eye, but the group is cramped and surrounded by strong white positions. This sequence shouldn't be too hard to read, as it's a one-way street of ataris, and the basic question of 'what if white pushes in?' absolutely needs to be considered.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:32 pm

Now I understand thank you for explanation.

PlaySlow · Post by **PlaySlow** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:38 am

Here's another game of mine that i made many mid game mistakes. Thank you for your comments!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:13 am

Q17

K3. Why the kosumi ?

Connect. Count. W is doing well so far.
B doesn't have so much. No reason to let B connect like that.

Yes, you want the outside.

Did you consider B11 ?

Life In 19x19

PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow

Re: PlaySlow