Life In 19x19

Thank you, Bill & knotwilg for your input.

I am also now fairly certain I am in the wrong league at Yunguseng. The level of my opponents is, I'd guess, 2 stones above me.
But since there is a promotion/relegation system, I guess I'll fall back to my own level eventually.

I'm down 0-4 right now. Tomorrow last game of first league.

It's really not unusual for players to go 0-5 in their first month (or any month) in YD. For one thing, it's very hard to predict from one rating system where a person should fit in in another. Also, YD members often have acquired a collection of skills and techniques unusual for their level (from In-seong's lectures) that can be difficult for newcomers to deal with at first.

Anyway, I hope you're not too discouraged! As you noted, the promotion/demotion system is intended to help people get to a level where their chance of winning is 50%. And in the meantime you had some nice learning experiences against stronger players.

Ian Butler wrote:Thank you, Bill & knotwilg for your input.

I am also now fairly certain I am in the wrong league at Yunguseng. The level of my opponents is, I'd guess, 2 stones above me.
But since there is a promotion/relegation system, I guess I'll fall back to my own level eventually.

Or raise your level of play by two stones.

Bill Spight wrote:

Ian Butler wrote:Thank you, Bill & knotwilg for your input.

I am also now fairly certain I am in the wrong league at Yunguseng. The level of my opponents is, I'd guess, 2 stones above me.
But since there is a promotion/relegation system, I guess I'll fall back to my own level eventually.

Or raise your level of play by two stones.

I'm quite confident that this is what will happen.
Either way, it looks like we're both going down a league next week, so let's chill out tonight and play our best

It was a fun game, yakcyll.

Anyway, all I want to do with the remaining 10 games of the Yunguseng season is to re-capture the joy of playing Go. That's all I'm interested in now.

Today, more by accident than it being planned, I found myself on OGS for some reason and I had about 40 minutes before I had to leave, so I played a game. For the first time in a while, without any stress.
I played quite okay, I think. It was against a 7 kyu.

And later it dawned on me. Maybe a reason why I haven't felt any real progress since the "training camp" in Germany is because since then, I've only played stronger players. Since I returned I've played the Yunguseng, where I am in a league with mostly 4 kyus. Before I went to JIGS, I was a 7 or even 8 kyu. So to see if I've improved, I need to play 7 and 8 kyus. Of course I lose against 4 kyus, I didn't gain 4 stones there.
Not that it matters, but still an observation worth making.

Anyway, here is the game, because it's been a while I posted one!
The game itself felt very comfortable, I just took points where I could and it was enough to win the game. Although after I felt I would win, I played slack and probably lost more points than I should've, but I wasn't really that focused anymore. Also you have to consider this was basically a blitz game, with like 10 seconds per move at the most (I did read for +25 seconds for a few times) I tried to play "basic" like Dwyrin's series, just taking big points and whatnot. I think it worked out well.

Ian Butler wrote:Anyway, all I want to do with the remaining 10 games of the Yunguseng season is to re-capture the joy of playing Go. That's all I'm interested in now.

Today, more by accident than it being planned, I found myself on OGS for some reason and I had about 40 minutes before I had to leave, so I played a game. For the first time in a while, without any stress.
I played quite okay, I think. It was against a 7 kyu.

Has anyone suggested 'The Inner Game of Tennis' by Tim Gallwey to you yet? Because I'm sure you should read it

Thanks, yakcyll, for the suggestions. I might try to get my hands on the book, it does look promising.

Anyhow, a decision has been made.
I quit playing/studying Go.
It doesn't really bring me pleasure anymore.
I think it's time to let it go, instead of clinging to it needlessly.

There is much I could say about it, a lot of thinking that's gone into it, but this is not the place for such private insights and thoughts. Suffice it to say that it'll be very good for me, and that I've learned everything I needed to learn from Go. I don't quit go out of frustration, anger or with sadness. Instead letting it go follows a very natural flow I'm on that will only make me a better me.
So thank you all for sharing this journey with me, for the many helping hands, and I'm sure we'll see each other again. Because quitting doesn't mean never playing another game in my life. Most definitely not.

The only thing I haven't figured out yet is the Yunguseng. I'd like to finish the season, but like I said, playing is not giving me any pleasure at the moment, so I don't know yet. Usually I try to finish what I start, but then again, maybe there are people who'd like to be in that would get much more out of it than me, so I'll have to sleep on it.

Ciao

Ian, what about that go club you were running?

Bon voyage!

Uberdude wrote:Ian, what about that go club you were running?

If I can answer in his stead, I believe it survived for a couple of weeks/months but then slowly died. Ian has been running a Go class in his school though, which is still alive and kicking!

Taking the matter away from his particular case, I think we can all relate to the stress Go can bring, if you decide to invest in improving at it. It can be quite overwhelming to see hundreds of online players on different servers who are considerably stronger than you and know they vanish in comparison with top pros, who themselves are no match for AI bots. To find your own place in that realm of strength is not an easy psychological feat. Myself I'm rather at ease with my level these days and enjoy playing (online), reviewing my games with Lizzie and writing about my findings. I think that's objectively easier at 2-4 dan than at 7 kyu.

Ian and I agreed that (winning at) Go doesn't have a very long lasting effect, definitely not of the magnitude physical activity, be it sports or walking in nature, can have, or playing music with a band, which we both enjoy (much more). Go can be quite ambiguous in the sense that it has a very rich intellectual and cultural aspect on one hand, but on the other hand often happens in social isolation and even when teaming up with other go players, there's an inherent nerdiness about it which can be off-putting. I for one never really enjoyed tournaments all that much and the experience has discouraged me to ever participate in a congress.

Still, I have never quit the activity and it's unlikely I ever will.

What do you mean by nerdiness? That go players think/behave in a strange way so you don't want to interact with them?

(Personally I don't think that go players have anything special, but maybe I am special myself so can't judge objectively.)

jlt wrote:What do you mean by nerdiness? That go players think/behave in a strange way so you don't want to interact with them?

(Personally I don't think that go players have anything special, but maybe I am special myself so can't judge objectively.)

Rather that most of them were uncomfortable interacting beyond collectively staring at a board position. Which wasn't so much of a problem during the games as at the dinner party. If I managed to squeeze a conversation out of my fellow table guests, it would mostly be of the kin "I had a winning position after the opening, but then I screwed up". There were exceptions, for whom Go was not a barely manageable escape out of social isolation, but yet another intellectual discovery. But as they were rare, they were often at the other end of the table.

During a dinner with go players, it is quite inevitable that go is one of main topics of conversation. I imagine that if you have dinner with table tennis players, then part of your conversation will be about table tennis.

Anyway I didn't notice they particularly lack social skills (but maybe the sample of go players I interacted with is too small, or maybe I lack these skills myself).

I'm lucky enough that the Go players I know in my area are quite a sociable bunch in general (in fact, this is one reason that I've stuck with it so long this time around instead of moving onto something else after a year like I usually do when I come back to it). But I'm sure it's true that the average Go player is less sociable in person than the average person. Then again, so am I.

The whole competition thing drives me nuts, and still does after decades of participating in it in both chess and Go. On the one hand, these games are incredibly beautiful, and I want to just understand them and appreciate them, the way that I appreciate the mathematics of quantum mechanics after taking a few courses even though I will never apply it in real life. On the other hand, for me there is no getting around the fact that the way that you demonstrate (even to yourself) mastery of these games is to actually play them well, by which I mean complete games with other people, from beginning to end. Otherwise it is like learning all about cooking by reading lots of cookbooks without actually making any food. The play of the game itself is the whole subject.

Even friendly games give me a little stress, online ranked games a little more so, and tournaments are the worst. For me, I've felt that the way forward is to learn to derive less stress from competition, rather than compete less, because in the end, competition is what a game fundamentally is. But it's still not easy!

For me the Yunguseng Dojang has been a very nice steady influence inducing me to take the game seriously but not obsess about individual wins and losses. But I can see how it might not work that way for everyone. In the end everyone has to do what's best for their own happiness.

Knotwilg wrote:

jlt wrote:What do you mean by nerdiness? That go players think/behave in a strange way so you don't want to interact with them?

(Personally I don't think that go players have anything special, but maybe I am special myself so can't judge objectively.)

Rather that most of them were uncomfortable interacting beyond collectively staring at a board position. Which wasn't so much of a problem during the games as at the dinner party. If I managed to squeeze a conversation out of my fellow table guests, it would mostly be of the kin "I had a winning position after the opening, but then I screwed up". There were exceptions, for whom Go was not a barely manageable escape out of social isolation, but yet another intellectual discovery. But as they were rare, they were often at the other end of the table.

jlt wrote:During a dinner with go players, it is quite inevitable that go is one of main topics of conversation. I imagine that if you have dinner with table tennis players, then part of your conversation will be about table tennis.

Anyway I didn't notice they particularly lack social skills (but maybe the sample of go players I interacted with is too small, or maybe I lack these skills myself).

My experience in the US has been quite the opposite. Here I have found that go players are in general quite highly cultured, with dinner conversations covering a wide range of topics, usually not including go. (OC, being relatively cultured may be a low bar in the US. )