[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
is interesting. I can't pretend to judge this one, but my hunch is that after , black will lose something important and will like a wasted move.
It's awful for black! He can probably not do quite so badly with the atari, but these all look far worse than my suggestion of c8 instead of d8.
Magicwand wrote:i think this is a point where i have to play strong. if i dont...i think i am not taking an advantage of my current position.
his trouble is getting bigger.
Sometimes when MW talks like this I don't agree with his judgement, but here I think he is dead right, black is in trouble. Let's see if Araban has any magic up his sleeve.
Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:54 pm
by Solomon
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 6 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . W . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I thought this worked for me.
I shouldn't have jumped the gun with E8, it was kind of a second chance move. Well, no worries, mistakes happen and crisis management is a very important skill to have in this game, so I will try to minimize the damage. I think the best I can do is to sac the two stones and ensure my side group's safety as top priority.
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 X O 2 4 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | c . b 1 3 d . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 X O 2 4 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | c . b 1 3 d . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's a pretty painful sequence...but maybe this is the best I can do? If he plays a-c to ensure my group has only one eye, then I'll have to push out with 'd' and try to break out. That's the idea I have in my mind.
Conclusion: I should have put more thought into the attachment move I made earlier, it is terribly beginner-ish to make this kind of oversight in a game with no time limits. When I read the hidden comments, I hope the audience isn't too harsh on the oversights I've made .
Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:03 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 6 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 6 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Surprised he didnt trigger that atari. does he expect me to play somewhere else???
Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:16 am
by ez4u
Obs:
I think Araban has not looked carefully here. In the sequence that he showed, I predict that MW will immediately turn at . I do not see that Black clearly has two eyes on the side and can not break out. Worse, Black has very few liberties so will find it hard to cut and fight. The marked stone is well placed to support any fighting. I think MW will have an excellent position even if Araban finds a way to live.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O 7 . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . 8 O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O 7 . . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . 8 O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:33 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
There seems to be universal agreement that Araban is in a desperate situation here, as conventional moves lead to a clearly superior position for MW. Desperate times require desperate measures. How about abandoning the stones on the left and going for a better situation on the lower side:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . 1 . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O 3 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 4 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O 2 1 . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So Araban can either get a working ladder - which MW will not permit - or a hane on F3.
It is still not a good situation for black, but at least it is fluid and not so easy to predict. After establishing some presence on the lower side, black would have a chance at attacking white's middle/right stones.
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O 5 . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O O . 1 . . . , . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . O O . . O 3 . . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
is interesting. I can't pretend to judge this one, but my hunch is that after 
, black will lose something important and 
will like a wasted move.
.
. I do not see that Black clearly has two eyes on the side and can not break out. Worse, Black has very few liberties so will find it hard to cut and fight. The marked stone is well placed to support any fighting. I think MW will have an excellent position even if Araban finds a way to live.