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#181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=7021

Page 14 of 17

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:55 pm
by topazg
@Intrepid:

The Intrepid wrote:What did you expect Magicwand to play?


The hane at T6:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm155 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O 3 5 |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X 2 |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O 9 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O 7 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O 8 6 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O 4 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This, AFAICS, is ko. I'd missed it because I hadn't realised the difference getting :w56: in sente made to the J group. You learn something every day :study:


@Uberdude et al

Uberdude wrote:Yes, Magicwand screwed up. With the hane on the right the J group is a ko. He could also have made a ko by descending instead of making the hanging connection to make a straight J group. He could also make a less good ko after the hanging connection by playing 52 at s3. Instead he died.

Graham, before Magicwand started action in this corner what did you think the status was?


See response to the intrepid :) I had forgotten the descent was ko, wow, I'd have played differently in the last 10 moves. More study required (le sigh)

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:01 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm151 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 X 7 |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X 8 . X 2 . 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 4 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:46 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm151 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O . . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 X 7 |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X 8 . X 2 . 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 6 . 4 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I absolutely have to avoid the connection ko here

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:42 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm151 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O 0 . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 X 7 |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X 8 . X 2 . 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 6 . 4 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:05 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he's going to seal me in, I want at least an eye and a few extra liberties, as we are going to have some form of semeai now.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:10 am
by Magicwand
P1 Atari

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:37 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't understand that move.. I thought he'd at least have left that there to be a ko

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 am
by Magicwand
P2

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:47 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . 5 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O 4 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


More surprising-ness ... I was concerned about the capture/re-capture liberty filling issues he might have created (capture two return one and then I have to fill in liberties and still fight a ko) - now either he takes P5 and I can crawl all the way out into the middle, or I get an eye there, and another eye on the capture/return now it's 4 stones long... I dare say I'm missing something again.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:20 am
by topazg
Here was me thinking I could play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . 6 . 7 X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X . 5 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O 4 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Turns out I now lose the liberty race by 1, I hadn't realised it was so close - he's a tricky customer that magicwand ... le sigh.

At least I've spotted it, and I think I can now play as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm167 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O 8 |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . W . . X X O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O 4 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O 6 X 1 X X O 7 9 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O 5 X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O 2 O 0 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm177 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O O |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . O 2 . X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O 3 5 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X X O O O O O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm183 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O O |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . 2 X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . O O . X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O O O O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Close, no?

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:46 am
by jts
doesn't mw's group lose about four libs if topazg plays t3 first, then throws in at s4 before squeezing with t5? I suppose that ends up with a ko after w captures T2/t3, but it's a ko with oodles of approach moves, and that eats up all the libs. It seems a shame to Kill in gote.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:47 am
by Sverre
jts wrote:
doesn't mw's group lose about four libs if topazg plays t3 first, then throws in at s4 before squeezing with t5? I suppose that ends up with a ko after w captures T2/t3, but it's a ko with oodles of approach moves, and that eats up all the libs. It seems a shame to Kill in gote.


If B plays t3 W will respond at s4. B must start by throwing in at s4.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:53 am
by Magicwand
P5
I now I lost. I will resign after few moves

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:35 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . . 6 X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X 7 5 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O 4 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He's eye-stealing, but it's also liberty-stealing, so I'll carry on according to plan.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:56 am
by Magicwand
O5
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 14 of 17

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