Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
https://lifein19x19.com/

Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 2 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:47 pm
by Dusk Eagle
I agree with everything you said fwiffo, except for the last diagram:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Not a crane's nest.
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X . .
$$ | . . X W . . .
$$ | . . X W . 2 O
$$ | . . X W . . .
$$ | . O O X 1 . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:59 pm
by fwiffo
Oops. Well, I'm sure they can imagine a correct example. :mrgreen:

27a

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:45 am
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 7 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yon move be forc'd.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:41 am
by Chew Terr
Can anyone who has a backup of this game suggest a good way for me to get a copy of it? The rapidshare only allows 10 downloads (and I'm at work so I can't see if that's used up). I would love to have a copy to go through once the game was over, and I may try to memorize it beforehand, since most of the mistakes I am making are being corrected. If email would work better, I would gladly give my address to someone willing to share it.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:25 am
by topazg
Approved
See previous analysis...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:54 pm
by Phelan
Chew Terr wrote:Can anyone who has a backup of this game suggest a good way for me to get a copy of it? The rapidshare only allows 10 downloads (and I'm at work so I can't see if that's used up). I would love to have a copy to go through once the game was over, and I may try to memorize it beforehand, since most of the mistakes I am making are being corrected. If email would work better, I would gladly give my address to someone willing to share it.
Send me a pm with your address and I'll send it. It's 4 MB.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:15 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Alright, I didn't want to usurp Phelan's post on page one, but since there is some concern that the download limit will be used up, here is my copy of the Big Brother Malkovich thread from GoDiscussions.

However, since the maximum allowed file is not enough for a normal .zip format, you'll have to download a program called 7-zip from http://7-zip.org in order to unpack the archive. I have other formats that I could have uploaded (such as bzip2), but I think this one is easiest for the most amount of people.

Edit: Or go with what Phelan wrote as I was writing this :razz: . Whichever is easier for you.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:26 pm
by Phelan
I was going to suggest that you contact Dusk Eagle too, since his copies seem to be smaller. Apparently it wasn't needed. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:27 pm
by Chew Terr
Thanks, gents. 7z is fine with me. =)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:33 pm
by Violence
Approved.
All according to keikaku.

Note: Keikaku means plan.

Maybe I shouldn't use inside jokes in these threads...

Move # 28a

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:43 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Updated prisoners per Joaz's change

I am stubborn. Nothing dramatic has changed on the outside, so I still want that point.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B X O . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | 2 X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Just to demonstrate, we cannot kill black in the corner.
I compared 'a' with 'b' in my last post. Both are sente to attempt to kill those three stones. I explained before that I prefer 'a' because it makes the fight less complicated and I am more confident with it. I AM a bit tempted to take 'c' to look after our top group, but I would rather take 'a' in sente first. That should mostly settle the stuff in that region for us, if the top group lives.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B X O . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . 7 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay, so we may not live inside, but it seems like we can at least get out and stable. I don't like that top middle black wall, but black has more weak groups than we do, so it can't be too horrible. Anyways, we get something on the left to compensate.

The more we play, the more that top middle stone Violence plays gets annoying =P

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:44 am
by shapenaji
Sigh... and so we lose two points for nothing.

Move #28B - part 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:00 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I don't approve.

I am about to put foward some major ideas; they will be heard and pondered. If not all of them please, surely a few will in some sort, then, I shall have contributed to the progress of our age, and shall be content.
Dang! We appear to have a misunderstanding here. I infer that Terr believes that I changed the move solely because of ordering: that we should play D18 first, then come back to D12. Whereas I am not all that pleased with D12.

There is a direction of play issue here. Some groups have multiple directions to go. Others have only one. Let's look at them.


The marked group has two possible directions. It can go low, like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X @ . . . S S . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X @ @ . S S . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X @ @ . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I consider this to be appallingly submissive. It gets us very little territory, and it allows Black's three floating stones to loosely connect with his pincer stone at H16.

It can also go out into the middle like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X @ @ . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X @ @ . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . S . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . S . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now black's stones are separated. Their pincer stone is vulnerable to a white play at 'a'. Their three floating stones can extend with 'b' but we happily play 'c'. Not only is this bad for black on general principles in that they are pushing the cart, but in this particular position it is even worse for them as we get closer to the crucial stone at D7.
Beginners: see http://senseis.xmp.net/?PushingTheCartFromBehind

Black's three marked stones also have two directions. They can go south:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As noted above, this sequence is good for white. White gets territory ( 'a' is sente any time white wants it ) and white connects to the D7 stone. Black gets influence, but is in danger of becoming eyeless and heavy. White can start a double attack with 'b'.


Their proper direction, IMHO, is the shape move around F14, or something similar:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O # . S . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O # . S S . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This starts forming eye shape. begins a connection to a neighboring black stone, and threatens to lock white in.

The next group to consider is the west side white group. It has two possible directions of play. It can turn like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Or it can extend like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . S , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Both seem good. Both strengthen the connection to the D7 stone, and both impair the health of the three floating black stones.


In summary, we have a group that has one good direction and one bad direction, and we have a group that has two good directions. Choosing a direction for the second group is no problem - we'll be relatively happy either way. We don't have to choose right now.
But we do have to make sure that the first group does not get forced into a bad direction. This makes it far more urgent. Conveniently, when we play in the proper direction, it interferes with black's preferred direction. Getting to G14 - or nearby - first is important to both sides.

So I choose to remove younger brother's move, and play in the proper direction off of the upper group. I'm not sure exactly where I will play, but it will probably be one of the moves marked below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc B: 9 W: 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . S S . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . S . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I hope to make a move later tonight.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:41 am
by daniel_the_smith
Lol, is that smoke I see coming out of shapenaji's ears?

Re: Move #28B - part 1

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:57 am
by topazg
Joaz Banbeck wrote:I don't approve.

I am about to put foward some major ideas; they will be heard and pondered. If not all of them please, surely a few will in some sort, then, I shall have contributed to the progress of our age, and shall be content.
Hehe, I predict that this is the second time the top player will revert to the weaker player's choice :)

At least I'm not the only one!
All times are UTC-07:00
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