Life In 19x19

Bill Spight wrote:If White now extends on the left side, Black has the problem of getting work out of .

$$B
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

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[go]$$B
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$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I see, thanks. I did not care for when played.
But, given , a pincer around (a) like is a better combination than ?

I am aware that the corner is worth a lot, and I am also very aware that I currently haven't secured a single one: that's why I'm currently trying to choose between re-enforcing the bottom-right or the top-right corner, or perhaps to start a fight in the bottom-right. I don't like that I've given the entire bottom away, but I think that white needs at least another play to fully secure the bottom-left corner, so I can still hope to live small there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 7 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

About the possibility of me playing at -- it wouldn't be enough to secure the bottom, it wouldn't help to secure the top-left, and it would still leave white some fighting room in the corner, so I'm not sure why it would be good. I'm probably overseeing something, though.

I think it's too early for a fight, but again, will delay until morning. I hope people don't mind me posting my thoughts in two parts so often.

PS: Is the spoiler still a spoiler?

Yes, I've seen that combination. I think I would have played it even without joseki dictionaries, seeing as looks like the only move. I may have played at R17 or Q16, though, or maybe P14 if looked weak.

Seeing that this combination is likely has made me choose to play in the top-right, because playing that out would make me very strong there. I expect white to play either at the top or at the bottom -- I think the bottom, seeing as I will be more likely to reply there. If white approaches, I will either pincer or cap, seeing as I feel fairly confident in being able to defend that corner. I can't really say I like the variation, but there isn't much else -- perhaps a kick could work, as that would get me sente...

If white expands on the top-left, I'll expand the top right, and if white attacks the top-right from the left, I'll cap. Hopefully, that'll be enough to secure some territory. Just noticed that 7 is going to be a good ladder-breaker for white, so may consider approaching it to allow a ladder of my own from the top-right.

Yes, that seems like the best variation (i.e. won't happen)

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[go]$$Wcm5 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . . . 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . 8 . 9 . . . 5 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But, enough wishful thinking, it doesn't look very likely (and a white cap at H4 looks like it would leave the group very alone, while giving white a chance to build a wall in sente).

Still fairly happy with how the game has started. FWIW, I'm not likely to approach any time soon, knowing that I have the 3-3, or potentially the 3-4 at Q3, is good enough to reduce the urgency for me for now. As and are both low, I'm not too concerned about the development potential on the right, and that's one reason I'm playing this now. If you get a wall, I can still reduce it effectively. The lower left is interesting and complicated, for me at least. I haven't decided how best to be annoying in that corner, but it's nice to feel I'm not under any pressure to play there too early. The top left is very interesting to me, and I will decide what I do there based largely on how this corner ends up.

Apart from being joseki, this move also seems to be the only decent move in the situation, as playing elsewhere would make white play where 2 now is. There is, however, one exception I see...

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[go]$$Wcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 1 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can see this happening, but it looks like I'd end up with a lot of influence, rather little support for the bottom-right, and a very ugly shape. Perhaps, continuing...

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[go]$$Wcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 1 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 4 3 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This does good for the right, but I still don't like the shape at all.

Joseki, I want that corner ..

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[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Later, there's the following aji:

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[go]$$Wcm17 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Actually, as far as I know, the full joseki ends in gote for black, and is as follows:

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[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That gets rid of the aji, but I don't want gote in this case -- a play at H3 looks like it is either a brilliant or a horrible idea, and I think I'm willing to try it. I can see the following outcomes:

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[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . 1 . . 3 . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . 1 . 4 . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But, enough of those. As to my next move...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And, well, pretty much every other one I look at ends up approximately this way, so I think this move is forced.

This, again, seems forced.

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[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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If the ladder in the bottom one worked, I could try that, but I don't think it's a good idea.