Life In 19x19

I expect my opponent to lean on this stone, press it down to make a wall, then jump westward. I don't exactly know a ton of 4-5 joseki, but if this happens I could probably take the corner or tenuki and be content. On the other hand, if my opponent blocks me out of the corner, I may get to prevent/check his extension. The reason I don't play one space lower, to assure more points in the corner, is that I have a star point in the top right. Any strength I build on the right-side (even strength that gets pushed a bit flat) will work with that radiating influence. As an alternative, my opponent could slide into the corner, in which case I will probably make a stable group in sente. I know I've been much more text-heavy this time, but sometimes text makes more sense than diagrams. If anyone has any questions or wants to see specifics, let me know. =)

I am not directly familiar with Yang's works, but-
What Joaz has said is in line with common opening theory (see: any author). R10 or Q10 directly would be a [direction] mistake, though perhaps aiming at chew wandering into... see earlier posts. If instead of a 4-4, black had a shimari facing that side, then yes, white could play there naturally.

I do think perhaps Joaz' explanations are coloured by Takeo Kajiwara.

I'm sure I've heard it said that at <4 handicap you should play completely normally.

How's it goin'? I found your text commentary easy to follow, but- you're expecting a slightly taller version of a 5-3 joseki? I don't know 5-4s well myself, so I dunno either.

Started to quote you, but then remembered that that would show me ALL of your hide tags. Closed my eyes and hit backspace to be safe. =D Yep, a slightly taller 3-5 joseki is exactly what I'm thinking. I'm doing well. Had a frustrating game last night where my fatal flaw of unwise thinness was punished, but otherwise, I'm really getting back into go and enjoying it, lately. As such, I'm really looking forwards to this game. I'm a LITTLE uncomfortable with some of the shapes we're already developing, but only because they're unfamiliar, not because they're necesassarily bad.

Yeah, I think Kajiwara has flavoured his comments too, and rightly so IMHO

One slight shortcoming in Joaz' explanations, from my perspective, is that a 4-4 is not synonymous with a shimari in the direction they both want. The urgency of the development on the right, in the diagram below, is bigger than on the left, even though both bottom corners "want" their respective areas developed:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR D5 D7 }
$$ { AR Q5 Q10 }[/go]

Chew Terr wrote:Started to quote you, but then remembered that that would show me ALL of your hide tags. Closed my eyes and hit backspace to be safe.

Close the browser! Right, never press the "Quote" button in your own Malkovich game; only copy & paste.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . z . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered playing one point higher than this, but solid is good. I'm going to try to keep solid. I expect my opponent will jump towards the bottom left, possibly after trading 'x' for 'y'. This would be good for him, but it's better than letting my approach stone get attacked, so I'm mostly okay with it for now. Alternatively, he could jump somewhere like 'z', which seems a bit slow, especially for a handicap game.

I believe that my honorable opponent has made a slight mis-step on move #4.

The most common approaches to a 5-4 are the 3-4 and 3-3 invasions ( noted with 'a' and 'b' below ). The 5-3 approach is generally regarded as special purpose move, used only for the rare occasion in which the side is worth more than the corner. In this instance, given that there is only one other stone on the side ( at Q 16 ), the side is not worth more.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I clearly cannot let black continue from his approach and have the corner like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc White is eyeless and floating
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So the obvious answer for me is to take the 3-3 point for myself:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc White gets the corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This not only gets a small corner for me, but it threatens to attack his stone with a pincer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...or shoulder hit:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I will not only get territory, I'll probably get sente when he defends.
There is only one reasonable way to defend:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc The simple 2-space jump
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The slide underneath is just too small:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Black gets maybe two points, \n white gets more than that and a solid base\n ...and sente
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

====================================================

Another way of looking at this involves tewari analysis ( see http://senseis.xmp.net/?Tewari ) If we consider the same position, but pretend that it was arrived at by a different sequence, we sometimes can gain additional insight.

Let's look at it like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Same stones, different order of placement
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 5 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here we have a white 3-3 stone alone in a corner, and black makes a 5-3 approach. This is rather odd, making a low approach to a low stone. The 3-3 stone is the king of low stones, being low with respect to two sides, and any low stone attempting to contest it in 'lowness' will come in second.

The primary weakness that 3-3 stone has is that it lacks influence, so the common approaches are high, at the circled spots:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Three high approaches, on biased to one side, one to the other,\n and one squatting directly on top.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . C . C . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is usually the most reasonable approach - to take what the 3-3 stone has left easily available.

Again, in this joseki, the 3-5 is a special purpose play, used when the side is worth more than the corner. And again, in this game, it looks odd because the side is not bigger.

=========================================================================

In summary: He played toward the side too much, so I'll take the corner. Net result is better for me.[/color]

On the right side of the board, his group is semi-weak. I have several possible plays against it. Move 'a' is a good large-scale attack; 'b' and or 'c' are nice for squashing it down - and very useful for territory if I should find myself with strength in the lower middle around 'x'; and 'd' or 'e' may be convenient if by some misfortune I should happen to need to cower in the corner to stay alive.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X d . |
$$ | . . . X . . . x . , . . . . O , . e . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The unfortunate thing about any of those 3 strategies is that they are all mutual aji-keshi: that is, playing any one of them induces a response from him that them pretty much removes the effectiveness of the other two. Since most of the board is still wide open, I don't yet know which one I will want, so it is too early for me to choose.

Before concluding the issue, I must ask if it is early enough for him to choose. Can he profitably remove any or all of the possiblities before I am able to make an informed choice? Might I be faced with the necessity of playing one of them right now to prevent him from taking it himself?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , C . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . x . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

First, he can stry something around 'a' himself. But this looks small and over concentrated on one side. No matter where he plays - such as above - there will always be at least one opening for me to invade. So if he can't secure the side with one move, it looks to small for him to try 'a'.

Next, he can try expanding to prevent the squashing moves of 'b' or 'c'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . x . , . . 9 . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Again, such a move looks overconcentrated, and when I reply with , I appear to have gotten more than he.

Last, he can slide into the corner, to prevent 'd' and 'e' but as noted in my previous post, I get more out of such a sequence than he does.

So, in conclusion, it is too early for me, and too early for him. I see no urgency - nor even a big move - on the right side.

More thoughts about other portions of the board will appear later...

About the choice of play on the left:

If the play in the center were to go as shown with the circled stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W W W W W W . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B B B B B B . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...then an attack like fits. ( It is generally a good idea to push your victims against a wall if you have one, using it like an anvil. )

But trying to use two perpendicular walls to make territory is inefficient:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W W W W W W . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B B B B B B . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and the putative territory can be easily invaded.


However, if the lower center turned out like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 7 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . 8 . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . W . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now making territory looks possible because invaders can be crushed against the newly created wall.

Note: these schemes are somewhat idealized, so there may be possible sequences that do work contrary to what I have said. Nonetheless, the idea here is to illustrate the general themes that arise from one type of resolution of the lower middle vs another type, and why the decisions on the left must wait. [/color]

I don't think there's anything wrong with chew's really. After all, particularly regarding the use of the tewari analysis, the 5-3 approach to a 3-3 is a perfectly reasonable joseki, albeit a much rarer one than the other two. With a 4-4 in the top top right, I think Black has nothing to be too unhappy about anywhere right now.

Having decided that there is nothing urgent on the right side, I'm going to look at the rest of the board.

There are moderately big plays at the top, but nothing urgent. There are bigger plays on the left side, but again, nothing urgent. On the bottom, there is an urgent issue: black can play N3. It ruins the shape of the corner, and deprives it of the natural extension along the lower side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So my next move has to deal with that. The easiest and simplest way is to play there or immediately nearby myself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Solid but unenterprising. 'A' works also.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W a . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another possibility is to play someplace along the bottom such that he can play N3, but the results are no good for him because he has insufficient room for an extension, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Black is heavy with no eyes. Moves 'b' through 'g' also work.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . e f g . 3 . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b c d W . 1 2 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm going to choose the second possibility because the first looks too passive. I'm 2 stones behind, so I need to push him a bit. Which one? I think that I can dismiss the high moves 'e', 'f', and 'g' because they leave an open skirt and can be undercut too easily:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc White has no easy follow up move.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So it comes down to one of these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . x x x x . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The leftmost one is the most ambitious. It prevents the formation of an easy extension by black, but its follow up move still leaves an invasion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Invasion possible at move 3 or later
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . W . . 2 . 3 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The next looks better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc No invasion, but flat. Hard to develop quickly.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . W . . 2 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The next is my favorite, because it has a good follow up

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc No invasion likely, and I get influence
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . W . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lastly, the rightmost is too small for my tastes:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc No invasion, and I get influence, but a tad small
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . W . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe that explains it, it appears Joaz is unaware that what Chew has played is joseki. I think White is too thin here. Black can't approach from the lower left easily, but then, that's not urgent anyway. He now has weak points to aim at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 c a b . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both "a" and "b" can cause White some locally reasonably serious issues now. Joseki was "a" or "b" in much the same way that is here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 2 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b a . . . 6 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I may be a little rusty right now, but I am surprised we disagree again so soon. I think that Joaz' extension is joseki (not from any source, feels like a joseki and I'm sure I've seen it before). By way of local tactics- if Chew invades, I think Joaz lives with fair points in the corner (and is out) while Chew must look to his invading stone and Joaz has options concerning k3 (one stone is an aji!). - And if Chew doesn't invade, the further extension gives Joaz some options for efficiency. In a perfect world K3 would be independently bigger and Joaz would already have support with which to pressure R8, but for the start of a handicap game, I don't think these moves can really be faulted.

On a slight tangent; I think K3 extension is joseki in topazg's comparative position too, but modern style, I'm told, does favor tighter, thicker extensions (which can tenuki approaches easily).

If Joaz had opened on the 3-3, would you have played for this joseki immediately?

And I am going to bed, KGS tournament in 7 hours (which effects my current grammar). Also topazg, we still need to play sometime!