I think an approach to their komoku stone is essential at this point (I remember what you were telling me about the size of each edge, and this edge has size 2.5, so is very important. At a guess, san-san probably gives a size of around 0.5 to each adjacent edge? It doesn't look very important to approach.)
Simba: we should have a convention of when to increment the counters. You seem to increment yours when you post and I seem to increment mine only after approval from my big brother. It does not really matter which way we go but it's confusing me slightly.
Let's start some fun. If I just attach underneath and play out the normal joseki then we would start seeing forms of a black moyo. It's not that that aspect scares me, but moyos require more middle game skills than fighting games (at least that’s my impression). If we turn this game into a huge mess than the resulting territorys are going to be smaller and our 33 and 34 are going to have a larger impact on the final score compared to their 44's
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:39 am
by robinz
Mnemonic wrote:
If we turn this game into a huge mess than the resulting territorys are going to be smaller and our 33 and 34 are going to have a larger impact on the final score compared to their 44's
@Mnemonic:
Hmm, in my experience (which is admittedly fairly limited), turning a game into a "big mess" means that it basically comes down to which side's reading is better, and something big dies on one side or the other. OK, with a dan player on each side to step in when required, I guess this is less likely to happen here (although I'm sure even high dan players misread complicated fights often enough) - but still, in a "big mess" type game then the side whose "little brother" is better able to handle it will at least pick up more points from corrections. I'd have thought that, as you seem to be playing a more territorial game while black is playing an influence-based one, taking cash and keeping things simple would be more in keeping with your strategy and offer a better chance of winning the game (even if it would be less fun ).
Not a criticism of your move, at all (I'm at least 10 stones too weak to seriously be able to do that anyway). I always find pincers both fun and slightly scary (for both sides), particularly in 3-4 joseki. *gets some popcorn and sits back to watch the fireworks*
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:33 am
by Mnemonic
(rules question: I suspect that Violence is reading my every post. That also includes post made by observers directed at me, right?)
@robinz (+violence?)
"taking cash and keeping things simple" would result in an easy opening and a moyo midgame. I suspect I'm better in the opening and try to use that to my advantage by making it long and complicated. Moyo based midgames require invasions and reductions and other complicated stuff that would fall under my "direction of play" bullet in my last post. They would require a change by my Big Brother if I screw them up and would probably be easy to answer by the opposing teams younger Brother. This "Big Picture Midgame" is probably my weakest area and supposedly Simbas strongest so I suspect that Violence will have to change more moves compared to topazg. If I can minimize the risk of Midgame requiring a lot of "Big Picture" thinking it would be in our favor (I think )
The messy midgame I'm aiming for does still have "Big Picture" stuff but it will have a lot more infighting and contact battles were I'm on the same level as Simba and a change by one Big Brother will likely require a counter change by the other.
I don’t know if this is logical or not, but I’m trying to play to my (perceived!) strengths and their (perceived!) weaknesses
Looked at D13 but I don't have a satisfactory answer to white playing C14 in reply. C15 seems a bit too solid/slow to separate the groups - B15 looks much better. If white peeps, I just connect and white has two weak groups, one of which will come under severe attack. I know that C17 is joseki but someone showed me when I first started playing that it gets really complicated. This variation looks a lot calmer and I'm not going to die horribly in the corner in this variation (heheh, famous last words...) . Also if white ends up getting an extension on the left, I have some nice yose to reduce his territory since I'm on the 2nd line now.
Sadly, this is very straight forward. We get development on both sides where black get center access and sente (other variation include us tenukiing before finishing the left side or just concentrating on the upper side) I was hoping for some complicated variation like the 33 attachment (After my horrendous misplay in the emerus game I've been studying this pincer)
btw, I thought Big Brothers can/were reading the smaller brothers posts?
Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:31 pm
by Violence
Approved.
Yes, I'm reading the ones you post with your move, but not anything else.
This move fits in with the 'play on the line of symmetry' proverb. If I try a keima, I could well get cut and boxed in, not keen on that. I could one point jump and attach, but I shouldn't attach to the pincer stone since it's weak, and if I attach to F15, it feels like I end up a bit heavy after the probable G15-F14 exchange. I quite like this diagonal move since it gives me the natural extension J17 from my hoshi stone which aims to play at the weakness white created at the top by playing a high move 8. And if white chooses to play another move on that side, his pincer stone is in trouble...!
First decision of the game. Our stone on the left is a bit cramped but I don't see a good way of saving him. The 2 space extension n would be undercut and black's group is too strong to be really pressured by jumping out. If black plays there first I might try something like this.
So the question is do I settle the upper side or do I tenuki (approach the upper right star point) I'm more in favor of tenukiing since the board is so open and I don't like leaving black with sente. If we play the standard joseki the gap between the marked stones is too small to be interesting yet:
This move is too thin. With the marked stone so weak; it is even more of a priority to ensure that the top group is completely solid, or the multiple weaknesses could become a pretty big liability. As black I probably would consider pincering or playing directly at b.
).
)
. Also if white ends up getting an extension on the left, I have some nice yose to reduce his territory since I'm on the 2nd line now.