Life In 19x19

Mef wrote:
To be fair, the privacy policy is part of the Terms of Service, which is the first page a user will be directed to if they have a question about KGS policies (also a page that has a dedicated link in the help menu of the client). If you are a new user to KGS, the first line you see (After "Welcome to KGS!") in the chat room welcome message is the link to the KGS policy FAQ, which has the first bullet point refer users to the ToS. Short of actively announcing it on a regular basis (which would probably be irritating to regular users), it is hard to make the information more accessible.

Again, "to be fair", I think that the information could, in fact be made more accessible. Just so we're all on the same page, let's take a look at the KGS TOS:



The second sentence of the boxed portion at the bottom is where it says that KGS text is logged - after the wall of single font text in front of it. It's easier to catch this information in wms's post here on the subject.

The other problem with this is, the TOS does not equate to what's enforced on the server. For example, people are banned by admins for talking about "non-go related chat" in games. Where is this to be found in the TOS?

Anyway, it's not true that more can't be done to make the TOS more clear and accessible, along with the privacy policy.

its pretty stupid to not read the privacy policy, and then complain about not understanding the privacy policy. Seriously, what?

The visibility may surely be improved, but what I am concerned about is the information it has - which is scarce. I would at least like to know if my chat is logged for an hour, a month, or forever.

Obviously, there is no point in storing data longer than necessary. I doubt a user would complain about another user's words weeks later. So it would make me a happy panda if WMS could confirm that logged chat is deleted after, say, a month.

On the other hand, I do not think the visibility of the paragraphs themselves is really bad, there are incredibly many far worse examples.

I'm fairly sure admins can also see certain system properties like your os name, etc.

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ ... sprop.html

You can just redefine them in the command line to hide them if you are paranoid.

mafu wrote:I doubt a user would complain about another user's words weeks later.

If you read through these forums you'd notice that some users complain about another user's words years later (=

But on a more serious note, I don't know offhand exactly how long the logs are kept for, but I know it is less than a month (I want to say two weeks?) unless there is a special reason to (recording a ban, etc).

I find it really strange. What are you people saying in your chats that is so secret or damaging that you are getting bent out of shape when you realize admins can potentially see it?!? I mean - just be polite to other, which is a good idea regardless of circumstances, and there will never be a reason for an admin to look at your chats. And even if they do, so what?

PS>
Oh, and don't give out personal info - like bank account numbers - over KGS chat.

PS>
I also find it strange that in 21st century people really seriously expect privacy while using a digital service.
Puh-leeze...

speedchase wrote:its pretty stupid to not read the privacy policy, and then complain about not understanding the privacy policy. Seriously, what?

I agree. But the statement was that it was difficult to make the information in the privacy policy more accessible to people - and this is not correct.

When all is said and done, everything you do on KGS ( and L19 ) is just a string of bits someplace on a disk. Some portions of that string are formatted in different ways, and accessed with different procedures, but it is still just a string of bits.
You have no reason to assume that admins can see some bits and not others.

1. Trust no one.

2. Chat only using a cipher on kgs.

duckweed wrote:1. Trust no one.

2. Chat only using a cipher on kgs.

Yes! This has been my mantra for some time now. It may appear that my words are in English, speaking aggressively in the EGR and KGS forum only to tick other people off.

But it's actually part of an elaborate code. I don't think anybody's figured out what I'm really saying, yet.

Kirby wrote: Yes! This has been my mantra for some time now. It may appear that my words are in English, speaking aggressively in the EGR and KGS forum only to tick other people off.

But it's actually part of an elaborate code. I don't think anybody's figured out what I'm really saying, yet.

wait is it actually, or is this code for something else?

To repeat an earlier point I just find it surprising that there is ANY expectation of privacy over ANY online communication.

If you are trying to say things you don't want others to see, the internet (w/o strong encryption) is not really the place to be. It's basic opsec.

Start with this attitude and it is hard to be disappointed/surprised by what is logged and tracked and what isn't.

Bruce "Spy Guy" Young

BaghwanB wrote:To repeat an earlier point I just find it surprising that there is ANY expectation of privacy over ANY online communication.

If you are trying to say things you don't want others to see, the internet (w/o strong encryption) is not really the place to be. It's basic opsec.

Start with this attitude and it is hard to be disappointed/surprised by what is logged and tracked and what isn't.

Bruce "Spy Guy" Young

Although you are certainly right, the internet has become so commonplace that it is hard to resist it's seductive offerings of instant wherever whenever communication. While many may start with the right attitude, I suspect that few stick with it. The more often you read "private message" the less it seems to mean "public message."

Agreed, Daal.

The intertubes are a great place for communication (you could argue that's it main/only purpose). Truly private communication is another matter entirely. You've at least 3 agencies handling the data transfer and anyone listening in who wants to or can along the way. Not very secure by any standard.

Bruce "CryptoQuip" Young

TIL stop hitting on KGS admins, but drunken chats could still contain hilarity.