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151. Shadonra vs. illluck

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5290

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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:08 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ah, right, the extend is bad because after white double hane black has weird shape. So presumably I should draw back here. Then I guess black will play on the bottom.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:22 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . 9 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White is very thick, so I'm afraid to extend further.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:32 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . 9 . 0 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
What I really want is to prevent a black move around R12, which will make top right very difficult to handle as well as weakening my right-side hoshi stone. I think black will likely jump out here, and I'll also jump. The result is a pretty flimsy framework, which should discourage black from playing around R12 because that would help white solidify.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:41 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I dislike having to play this, but the invasion is too severe.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:41 pm
by Redundant
A request from the audience. Can you only number moves made in a post on the diagram? Having a ton of numbers makes the diagrams pretty noisy.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:46 pm
by illluck
Ah, yes, that would make sense XD

I'll do that from now on.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:49 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:42 pm
by Celebrir
I guess you shouldn't use odd numbers illuck ;)

Fixed board:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:44 pm
by speedchase
shouldn't it be 22 and not 12?

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:46 pm
by illluck
Ah, thanks :) You'd think I would realize that 1 is odd XD
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:26 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I kind of wanted to play R5, but that's my greed talking.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:44 pm
by jts
I'd just like to chime in and say that I disagree with redundant. If the game is going along at a good clip, I prefer not to scroll through diagram after diagram. Should I make a poll? (Not that it would be a binding referendum... :D )

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:25 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As expected, black decides to come inside instead. Again I am having a bit of trouble making my sansan stone work (even now moves like the 3-4 attachment is a bit annoying). I am not sure what black will do. I think jumping out is sort of natural, but then I can shoulder-hit the top right shimari nicely. So I suspect black will play something like R12 instead, and I then plan to playing something on top.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:35 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:28 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As discussed previously, I will play this shoulder-hit. It does strengthen black's top side, but I still like it since my hoshi stone is in need of support.
All times are UTC-07:00
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