Life In 19x19

True, I have not found, not even after years of searching, any credible evidence that people ever were gassed and incinerated by the Nazi’s[...]

...I'm not downloading this software even if it were the last exe-file on the globe.

Jonas wrote:...I'm not downloading this software even if it were the last exe-file on the globe.

your loss...

It's nice software. What the guy believes in or not does not change that.

I must admit, I don't quite understand why people wouldn't download the software as free just because it's author has those kind of views. Walt Disney was known for his right wing extremism, but that doesn't stop most people buying Disney films.

It was one thing when it was still costing money, and that money went towards holocaust denialists, because then the money you put forward may go to a cause you despise, but if it is free?

freegame wrote:It's nice software. What the guy believes in or not does not change that.

Pretty much my thoughts. If it was commercial, and I suspected that my money would support something I find questionable, I might not buy it, but as long as it's a free download, the author can have his opinions; I don't feel that I support them in any way if I download his software.

e: topazg was quicker

Maybe you are right, but personally (and after reading his blog) I've the feeling that downloading the software provides him some kind of acknowledgement that I'm not willing to give him.

Jonas wrote:Maybe you are right, but personally (and after reading his blog) I've the feeling that downloading the software provides him some kind of acknowledgement that I'm not willing to give him.

I have no problem acknowledging that his software is jaw droppingly cool (the instant pattern matching). But that in itself does not make me share or even acknowledge any other view he might have. I see and understand your view, I just see it slightly different.

Jonas wrote:Maybe you are right, but personally (and after reading his blog) I've the feeling that downloading the software provides him some kind of acknowledgement that I'm not willing to give him.

Same here.

And by the way, I don't consider anything a loss, what I never desired to have.

For what it's worth: Disney died 1966, that's just 12 years after the us-principle "seperate but equal" got officially rejected by the supreme court. You can't compare something, which was largely (well, white majority~) accepted through all levels of society to this time with something that is nowadays well investigated, proved and accepted by all legitimate states in the world.

SoDesuNe wrote:For what it's worth: Disney died 1966, that's just 12 years after the us-principle "seperate but equal" got officially rejected by the supreme court. You can't compare something, which was largely (well, white majority~) accepted through all levels of society to this time with something that is nowadays well investigated, proved and accepted by all legitimate states in the world.

I believe you can, because the point isn't the general acceptability of it, it's the individual's desire to not be seen to support something they feel is anywhere between unpleasant and abhorrent. It doesn't matter whether that is political, religious, based on race / gender / ethnicity, so the gravitas of the comparison is irrelevant - the issue being raised here is to whether or not an individual is supporting the views of the author of software by downloading said software. I can understand Jonas' point that it feels like an acknowledgement that he is unwilling to make.

I found Frank repeatedly impossible to talk to, on even completely non controversial issues. I find some of his political views extremely disagreeable. Even specifically regards to MoyoGo itself, I feel that his acquirement of his professional game Go database was underhanded.

However, at the same time, I am happy to acknowledge that his software is really very good. If the money was going to a cause I believed was wrong, I wouldn't pay for it. If I believed the money was supporting action on the software (such as stealing other people's code or databases), I wouldn't pay for it. If it is free, and high quality, I will happily download it without a belief that I am funding, supporting, or endorsing any of his beliefs, views or practices. I see them as non-associated issues.

EDIT: I'm also not trying to make a point that my way is right either. I think Jonas has every right to feel fully justified in his decision. I just think there are different ways to view the whole issue, and that I and others that don't have the same issue with downloading the software also have every right to feel justified.

I'm with Jonas. I don't want to be associated, pay or free.

Furthermore if I download the game database, I would have the nagging feeling that, in a roundabout way, I have stolen something. Would you accept, say, a stolen laptop as a gift?

Anyway I have previously purchased SmartGo for its game database/search and I am happy with it.

zinger wrote:Would you accept, say, a stolen laptop as a gift?

No, if I knew it was stolen. It would also be illegal (in Finland).

Tell me more about the databases, I'm not aware of the story.

zinger wrote:Would you accept, say, a stolen laptop as a gift?

No, but it's not a very precise analogy. A better analogy would be a non-stolen laptop with unlicensed software on it. In which case, if I already owned a license to the other software in my name, then yes I would. Otherwise I would remove the software or get a license for the software. This analogy fits I think in each case.

Jonas wrote:

True, I have not found, not even after years of searching, any credible evidence that people ever were gassed and incinerated by the Nazi’s[...]

...I'm not downloading this software even if it were the last exe-file on the globe.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has a problem with apostrophe abuse.

Disregarding the paid / free issue, can you trust this kind of software vendor ? How can you be sure that there's no malicious code inside ? You can't, so you have to trust the vendor to use it.

Frank has stated before that he has choosen not to even install a remote license validation (or something similar, I'm not 100% sure), something that is widely used by others, in an effort not to cause paying customers any inconvenience.

That said, with the free version we aren't paying customers and he has changed his mind on more serious issues than license validation in the past so perhaps the above doesn't mean anything.

I don't know much about the Frank debate, but I don't have any real qualms against him. I don't "hate" anybody in this world. That's the thing I like about my signature - to know all is to forgive all.

From the little I've seen of Frank, he seems to have wild opinions... But if I understood Frank more, maybe I could relate to him. The same goes for anyone - even people I disagree with or get mad at.

So for me, it comes down to considering if downloading the software is wrong. It's free, so I'm certainly not supporting a bad cause. The only reason I can think of not downloading the software would be if I had a thing against Frank. But as explained earlier, I don't really have a thing against anybody - I just don't understand every person all of the time. But with enough understanding, I would.