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Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:21 pm
by hailthorn011
Well, it's time! The heavyweight title match between Iyama Yuta and Yamashita Keigo is underway resumes! Put the speculation to rest, the debates aside, everything is going to be settled upon the Go board in emphatic fashion today in a decisive Game 7!
Will Iyama Yuta ascend to greatness and capture his first ever Honinbo title, or will the ever talented Yamashita Keigo prevail? Find out now!
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:34 pm
by hyperpape
Seems that I can't log in as me on IGS, so I'm just watching.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:47 pm
by oren
I'm watching on wbaduk now. Interesting game.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:23 pm
by gogameguru
Wow! I didn't expect black to start the ko in the top left so early.
Black has more local ko threats and it looks like white only has a few in the top right, which will probably be ignored, but I thought the fight was ok for black without resorting to a ko and that white's running group was a bit heavy.
It's a two stage ko, which seems annoying for black, and if white wins it he can also eat that five stone clump to help the center group. So I can't help feeling that starting the ko makes white more a bit more flexible in the top left, though I'm sure Yamashita has already calculated this quite carefully.
What do other people think about this position?
EDIT: Here's the position for anyone who can't watch online or is reading this later:
$$W Black starts the ko. :b6: takes the ko back.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . O . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | 2 O X X O X . X O O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | 3 X O O . X . O . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | X X X O . . . O . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O . X . . O X O . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 1 . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black starts the ko. :b6: takes the ko back.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . O . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | 2 O X X O X . X O O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | 3 X O O . X . O . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | X X X O . . . O . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O . X . . O X O . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 1 . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
While I was writing this, two more moves were played...
$$W Yamashita makes white heavy.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . O . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | B O X X O X . X O O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X . O . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | X X X O . . . O . O . . . . . 1 O O . |
$$ | . X O O . X . . O X O . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Yamashita makes white heavy.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . O . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | B O X X O X . X O O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X . O . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | X X X O . . . O . O . . . . . 1 O O . |
$$ | . X O O . X . . O X O . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
What an exciting final game!
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:08 am
by hailthorn011
Hidden for people who may want to play the game out without knowing who the winner is:
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:18 am
by Laman
and here is the complete sgf, with almost all comments from IGS:
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:00 am
by hailthorn011
Laman wrote:and here is the complete sgf, with almost all comments from IGS:
That surely was an exciting game.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:03 am
by helofloki
Gah, fell asleep during that second Ko around move 99. Thanks for posting up the file with the comments, very interesting. Very exciting game. A lot of interesting moves and surprising exchanges.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:16 am
by Kung-Fu Joe
So, now, Iyama holds the Judan, Tengen, and Honinbo titles. If he wins against Hane Naoki on the 23rd, he'll have the Gosei as well.
I see that a few others, including Kato Masao and Cho U, have held four simultaneous Big 7 titles before. Has anyone ever held five? Iyama has a very decent shot at being the challenger for the 37th Meijin; and while there is still quite a ways to go in the series, Iyama has the potential to challenge for the 60th Oza, as well.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:14 pm
by hyperpape
Yes,
Cho U has held five at the same time.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:12 pm
by lemmata
I am always surprised that Cho Chikun's name doesn't automatically come up in every discussion of people who have held multiple big titles simultaneously. Maybe it was too long ago and we have just forgotten.
Cho Chikun held the Kisei, Meijin, Honinbo, and Judan titles simultaneously in 1983 (or 82?).
In terms of prestige, the Kisei (largest prize, Shuko's claim to being the strongest in Japan), Meijin (traditional title of the strongest player since the Edo era), and Honinbo (oldest title, named after the strongest go family of the Edo era) are a notch above the four other big Japanese titles.
That aside, Iyama Yuta plays a fun game. Perhaps he can win an international title. He's already proven that he can beat the top international players.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:21 pm
by Laman
lemmata wrote:Cho Chikun held the Kisei, Meijin, Honinbo, and Judan titles simultaneously in 1983 (or 82?).
he repeated it in 1996. and afterwards kept all three for three years. see
senseis. pretty strong guy.
i can easily imagine we would remind ourselves Iyama in a similar way in 20 or 30 years from now.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:11 pm
by hailthorn011
So, now that Iyama Yuta has obtained the Honinbo title, what do y'all think the likelihood of him sweeping Hane Naoki for the Gosei is? In my opinion, I believe he'll take it in 3, but I'm biased.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:24 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Joaz Banbeck wrote:hailthorn011 wrote:... he'll sweep Hane Naoki.
I'd never count Hane Naoki out until the last dame. Remember the 2008 Honinbo? He was down 3-0 in best of seven. He then beat Takao 4 straight to take the title.
And he won last year's Gosei with 3 straight wins - after being down 0-2.
Re: Honinbo/Gosei
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:28 am
by Kung-Fu Joe
Iyama Yuta wins against Hane Naoki in Game 3 by Resignation! He now holds the Gosei, Honinbo, Judan, and Tengen titles!