oh my god it sucks... just because of one bad bad move table has turned
now i have to turn it around again..
why did i play that move???? because i dont wanna be the one who plays the obious move.
i will let my other weaker players play so i can at least play it correctly after that move.
does that make sense to anyone???
simply i had to do something different.
Where 40 is supposed to go I haven't the faintest idea - I wish magicwand hadn't double-haned, this is way too messy
What pot is topazg smoking? The only move here is to connect!
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:56 am
by topazg
Hmmmm, magicwand has tenuki'd. Did he realise the double hane was a blunder, or was my move bad? I still think his move was just overplay, but I really want to know what he's thinking. I'm going to take "a" below as soon as I get my move, because it's sente, it can't be aji-keshi as there's no real aji there any more, and if Black connects it's mean and nasty. I still think "b" is a good followup, and settles White completely. magicwand's latest move just looks like aji-keshi to me. Sure, there's not much going locally there at the moment, but if doesn't make sense unless White wants to push at "c", which really seems aji-keshi, as I want "d" later.
$$Bcm37 Move 38 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X a O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm37 Move 38 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
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$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X a O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Either he played a trick play that didn't work out because Black cuts, or he wanted me to connect. I'm having a look at the one variation that I didn't really analyse, but I can't find any way of liking it:
I'd love everyone 4d+ to say whether a) the double hane was overplay, and b) whether my mistake was simply wrong irregardless of the quality of the double hane (i.e. now it has been played White must connect even though it's still not that great for White). I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move), but Bill? Araban? Shapenaji? This sort of position comes a lot with me, and I know I have a habit of sacrificing single stones when I shouldn't, so I'll be keen to read all the feedback when the position resolves
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:14 am
by unkx80
topazg wrote:I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move)...
I think it is okay for you to read my comment. It is on your move, but it's also just a one-liner snark.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:17 am
by topazg
unkx80 wrote:
topazg wrote:I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move)...
I think it is okay for you to read my comment. It is on your move, but it's also just a one-liner snark.
Haha, now I guess my move must have been sucky - White looked so ugly connecting though Sheesh, now my paranoia over my moves is going to go up even further
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:25 am
by unkx80
Hidden from players
I feel that magicwand's push might be premature. If I am black, I am very tempted to play double atari here.
Absolutely no thinking required for this move. We must block. I really don't know why magicwand played this, it's usually good to hold this in reserve until you have a tactic, and I don't see one here.
I was quite happy to see Violence's move, as we clearly got a good result there, which seems to vindicate my choice of cutting. I think white must have made some mistake.
Bleh, having established that my last move sucked, I want to get this in before Black does (or double-atari'd possibly, I don't know which is better). At least this way we get to settle without breaking the top right.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:57 am
by Phelan
Damn, now I have to pick between going up with something like Q13 or P14 like magicwand seemed to want, or to go south with P4...
I doubt Jordus will do something as unexpected as not connecting.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:46 am
by daniel_the_smith
Proper rengo strategy is probably to not give the weaker players obvious moves to answer, and do so for the stronger players. I'm pretty sure everyone can make a 9d move in black's current position.
I have to play reasonable moves because topazg can probably punish my mistakes, but there's a good chance that topazg could find a decent move with a continuation fuzzy enough that Jordus wouldn't be able to find it. Same could be said for magicwand and me.
You might think that as compensation for giving them that strategy, we have a 4 dan to punish everything Phelan does wrong--but Phelan could just make forcing moves, effectively leaving me to deal with magicwand and Jordus to handle topazg, which should give them a 4+ stone advantage.
I think they got the better end of the deal, but so far I don't think people are playing the metagame very strategically.
See my previous comment in this thread. Between going up and coming down, I think I prefer playing down first. I feel there's still potential for white at the top, and don't want black to get to play there first and make territory while chasing this group.
So magicwand, if you wanted one of us to play up there, sorry.
$$Wcm42 Alternatives I thought of
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . c . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm42 Alternatives I thought of
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$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . c . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All of these seem to strenghten black and they don't do that much for life.
I've seen the below happen between lower ranked players, avoid it. While you may capture part of the group, you give a free net (and therefore eye) to white.
I'm expecting black to either play a or b. In both cases, I think that blacks replies will give white a chance to move towards/invade the lower right corner.
But then again, I'm getting used to being surprised in this game.
Edit: Oh, and Jordus, could you post something? At least a sentence saying why you need to play that move? Both of us know, but it could be interesting for the readers.
first the move look good. but does it work?? my first reading NO.
second reading maybe. third i dont know.
finally i dont care lets run through then it will be more clear later.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:14 pm
by Violence
$$Bcm41 Move 41 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 1 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Move 41 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
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$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 1 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's important to not make bad exchanges, and to just play calmly while reading out ways to rip your opponent apart. White is kinda thin around here, so it's a matter of waiting for the right moment to attack.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:29 pm
by Phelan
Agh, mislabeled. My move was 42, and Violence's is 43. Editing my post now.
