Life In 19x19

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:22 am**

billywoods wrote:
foeZ wrote:But I've been busy studying it for little over an hour now, and I've gotten to page 5 out of 260+
You're not seriously telling me you were expecting to master an entire book in a day? Textbooks and reference books are not like reading fiction. You may spend days on a single page. Don't do so if you can help it, of course - but if you have to, don't worry about it.

No no, but I was expecting to get further than 5 pages in a day xD

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:04 pm**

foeZ wrote:No no, but I was expecting to get further than 5 pages in a day xD

Ishida and Takao are a culmination and distillation of hundreds of years of knowledge.
Certain moves and sequences have been studied and analyzed over hundreds of years;
others, in less time. And these are not even the really difficult variations --
they are merely the "basic" ones, thus the titles of the dictionaries.
Many sequences -- life-and-death, tesujis, etc. -- that are "obvious" to pros are omitted.
When the book says "Black collapses" or "This does not work for White," the reader often has to verify for herself.
Ishida and Takao are only a tip of the tip of the iceberg.
Just a whiff.

Spending one day on 5 pages is one level of understanding.
Spending one week on 5 pages is another.
One month on 5 pages, yet another.

Or lack thereof.

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:13 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c An easy joseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . O a . O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Just to give you some context on how long other people might take. I spent about an hour going over blacks follow ups if white ignores the marked stone. The options being 'a' and 'b'.

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:45 pm**

$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

In some cases, if W tenuki again after

, then B also has (c).

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:42 pm**

EdLee wrote:
$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O a . O . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 W . c . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . O a . O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 W . c . b . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
In some cases, if W tenuki again after , then B also has (c).

True, I was talking specifically about the variations covered in 21st century dictionary of basic joseki.(I did not clarify that though)
In addition the variations stemming from

a or b either leave

available or cut off the marked white stone for greater profit.
You've inspired me to look into a position though

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B best move? $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

It seems that with the exchange of the two marked stones a might now be the vital point of the position. I'll look at it later though.

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:01 pm**

[15k-ignorance]
Looks to me that if black plays a, white will want to defend against c. Then, depending on what the upper left looks like, a severe pincer of the

stone might be fun for black. Alternatively, black can make a base on the right with the

stone.
[/15k-ignorance]

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:11 pm**

Twitchy Go wrote:
$$B best move?
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . e W d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . b . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B best move? $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . e W d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . b . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

This probably depends on global considerations. If it's good for B to get out, then B can get out;
otherwise,

(a) could be the best move. It depends on the whole board.

Life In 19x19

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