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The new OGS http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9222 |
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Author: | jts [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
I have never played on OGS, so perhaps my opinions are entirely irrelevant. But I did use the OGS website a lot, because there were interesting games there, especially Uberdude's. OGS was a beautifully designed website, at least for the purpose of observing other's games; easy to look at, easy to navigate, well-suited to the game of Go and the way we tend to comment up our games afterwards. As it stands, I would have loved to see the archived games from some other live server receive the visual presentation that OGS gives its games. Instead we get OGS giving all of its games to the second-ugliest Go server (after DGS). I don't want to go wild criticizing Nova.gs because it's a new server and I'm sure they had many other things to take care of: copying the visual "feel" of the server from Yahoo or FlyOrDie is not a move that I would have expected from Go players, but it's pretty logical, especially as a starting point for later development. But I can't imagine what ever could have possessed OGS to sacrifice its own appearance in this way. The sensible thing would have been to fold NGS's real-time capabilities into OGS's visual lay-out. I can understand if there were programming challenges that made that impossible, but if you can only effect a merger by defaulting both servers to the lowest common denominator... |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
jts wrote: My favourite colour is blue! Well mine is green. Seriously, though. I found DGS much more elegant in terms of visual appearence than OGS. OGS seemed a bit cluttered, and I'm not really a big fan of javascript. And I happen to think that nova looks better than OGS did. Have you tried the "dark theme" on nova? |
Author: | Bantari [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
jts wrote: I have never played on OGS, so perhaps my opinions are entirely irrelevant. But I did use the OGS website a lot, because there were interesting games there, especially Uberdude's. OGS was a beautifully designed website, at least for the purpose of observing other's games; easy to look at, easy to navigate, well-suited to the game of Go and the way we tend to comment up our games afterwards. As it stands, I would have loved to see the archived games from some other live server receive the visual presentation that OGS gives its games. Instead we get OGS giving all of its games to the second-ugliest Go server (after DGS). I don't want to go wild criticizing Nova.gs because it's a new server and I'm sure they had many other things to take care of: copying the visual "feel" of the server from Yahoo or FlyOrDie is not a move that I would have expected from Go players, but it's pretty logical, especially as a starting point for later development. But I can't imagine what ever could have possessed OGS to sacrifice its own appearance in this way. The sensible thing would have been to fold NGS's real-time capabilities into OGS's visual lay-out. I can understand if there were programming challenges that made that impossible, but if you can only effect a merger by defaulting both servers to the lowest common denominator... I agree that the interface leaves a lot to be desired. But I see it as an intermediary step. First you get the functionality done, work out all the kinks, iron the wrinkles, and then slap a killer interface on it. Otherwise - you kaya it all up. ![]() |
Author: | jts [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
leichtloeslich wrote: jts wrote: My favourite colour is blue! Well mine is green. Seriously, though. I found DGS much more elegant in terms of visual appearence than OGS. OGS seemed a bit cluttered, and I'm not really a big fan of javascript. And I happen to think that nova looks better than OGS did. Have you tried the "dark theme" on nova? Ah, I should have known I could trust you to provide a solution. Not a serious solution, but perhaps that would be asking for too much. @Bantari - I agree with you completely. I don't think I ever mentioned the look of Nova because functionality should come first. But do you agree that it's backwards to take a server with established functionality and an intelligent interface, and dump all its users onto a server that hasn't had time to work on the interface yet because functionality is still shaky? |
Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
Well, I took a look at OGS and found it to be very unintuitive. I could not find a list of active game offers, which to me is the most important. And the list of active games did not appear to be scrollable. I also could not find any instructions as to how to use the site. What am I missing? |
Author: | Bantari [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
jts wrote: leichtloeslich wrote: jts wrote: My favourite colour is blue! Well mine is green. Seriously, though. I found DGS much more elegant in terms of visual appearence than OGS. OGS seemed a bit cluttered, and I'm not really a big fan of javascript. And I happen to think that nova looks better than OGS did. Have you tried the "dark theme" on nova? Ah, I should have known I could trust you to provide a solution. Not a serious solution, but perhaps that would be asking for too much. @Bantari - I agree with you completely. I don't think I ever mentioned the look of Nova because functionality should come first. But do you agree that it's backwards to take a server with established functionality and an intelligent interface, and dump all its users onto a server that hasn't had time to work on the interface yet because functionality is still shaky? Yup. |
Author: | skydyr [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
I can't help but feel that the surprise announcement as a fait accompli reflects a sentiment on the part of the development team that many of the users would not like the changes and did not want to give the opportunity for input. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
I actually signed up to OGS thinking it was NOVA but i ended up just sticking with it cause I signed up anyways. so now i actually get what i wanted ![]() |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
jts wrote: do you agree that it's backwards to take a server with established functionality and an intelligent interface, and dump all its users onto a server that hasn't had time to work on the interface yet because functionality is still shaky? Maybe you would be interested in hearing the OGS side of things: http://online-go.com/forum/thread/2909/ Also I heard that OGS was autotranslated to PHP from some other language, which made maintaining the code (or even adding features) a royal pain in the ass. Though this is pure hearsay (and I might be remembering it wrong), so you'd need to ask topazg for more info on that. DrStraw wrote: I could not find a list of active game offers, which to me is the most important. You were logged in, right? If you were logged in, I have a hard time believing you missed the big blue button that says "browse open challenges". Did I mention it was big, and blue? It opens a seek graph (a small version of which is also available in the chat-window) and a list-form of the challenges. For questions I would generally advise to go into one of the chat-rooms (on top of the page there is a navigation bar). The direct links would be: http://online-go.com/game/showOpen (open challenges) http://online-go.com/chat (chat) Although admittedly, I wouldn't know how to get to the open challenges without being logged in (and without using the above direct link). My guess would be that guests aren't allowed to play, so they don't need to see the open challenges anyway. |
Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
leichtloeslich wrote: DrStraw wrote: I could not find a list of active game offers, which to me is the most important. You were logged in, right? If you were logged in, I have a hard time believing you missed the big blue button that says "browse open challenges". Did I mention it was big, and blue? Of course I saw it. And when I clicked on it all I got was a big empty box with labels "blitz", "live" and "long" below it. Nothing else. |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
DrStraw wrote: when I clicked on it all I got was a big empty box with labels "blitz", "live" and "long" below it. Nothing else. Well, that's the seek graph. If everything was working normally that would mean there were simply no open challenges when you checked. But I suspect there might be something wrong on your end, maybe a javascript/browser issue or something? As I mentioned earlier, the best place to ask questions would be the live-chat. I'm sure they will be able to help you out. Of course if the chat is also not working, that piece of advice might be moot.. From the chat: Code: [0:05] GregorS: hey, what are the "system requirements" for running nova?
[0:05] GregorS: as in browser version, things like javascript, cookies or whatever. [0:05] matburt: GregorS: as long as it supports websockets and isn't an ipad 1 at the moment [0:05] anoek: (javascript and cookies are a must) |
Author: | yoyoma [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
DrStraw did you ask in the OGS/Nova chat? It sounds like maybe you hit a bug or something because usually the box you talked about has grey and green boxes in it for game offers, and also a table style list of them below that. |
Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
leichtloeslich wrote: From the chat: Code: [0:05] GregorS: hey, what are the "system requirements" for running nova? [0:05] GregorS: as in browser version, things like javascript, cookies or whatever. [0:05] matburt: GregorS: as long as it supports websockets and isn't an ipad 1 at the moment [0:05] anoek: (javascript and cookies are a must) Perfect, 75% of the time I send moves were in my iPad 1. Great way to ruin my correspondence experience, which was acceptable in OGS before. I hope the "at the moment" is that they are trying to solve it. |
Author: | oren [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
RBerenguel wrote: Perfect, 75% of the time I send moves were in my iPad 1. Great way to ruin my correspondence experience, which was acceptable in OGS before. I hope the "at the moment" is that they are trying to solve it. It sucks to lose the games you're playing now, but you could switch to DGS for new ones. |
Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
oren wrote: It sucks to lose the games you're playing now, but you could switch to DGS for new ones. I can still make my moves in my computer, is just that I use to play correspondence when I'm no longer in "work mode," i.e. tablet instead of computer. I moved from DGS to OGS because I liked conditional moves (which also didn't work before on a tablet...) and the tournament structure (which I still like.) |
Author: | lobotommy [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | The new OGS |
RBerenguel wrote: leichtloeslich wrote: From the chat: Code: [0:05] GregorS: hey, what are the "system requirements" for running nova? [0:05] GregorS: as in browser version, things like javascript, cookies or whatever. [0:05] matburt: GregorS: as long as it supports websockets and isn't an ipad 1 at the moment [0:05] anoek: (javascript and cookies are a must) Perfect, 75% of the time I send moves were in my iPad 1. Great way to ruin my correspondence experience, which was acceptable in OGS before. I hope the "at the moment" is that they are trying to solve it. I feel your pain -I'm 99% mobile and I can't force new ogs to work on any of my mobile devices. But I'm not playing there at the moment so I can wait for a fix. btw there are Android and iOS clients on the way (as I heard on #twitter). |
Author: | RBerenguel [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
lobotommy wrote: RBerenguel wrote: leichtloeslich wrote: From the chat: Code: [0:05] GregorS: hey, what are the "system requirements" for running nova? [0:05] GregorS: as in browser version, things like javascript, cookies or whatever. [0:05] matburt: GregorS: as long as it supports websockets and isn't an ipad 1 at the moment [0:05] anoek: (javascript and cookies are a must) Perfect, 75% of the time I send moves were in my iPad 1. Great way to ruin my correspondence experience, which was acceptable in OGS before. I hope the "at the moment" is that they are trying to solve it. I feel your pain -I'm 99% mobile and I can't force new ogs to work on any of my mobile devices. But I'm not playing there at the moment so I can wait for a fix. btw there are Android and iOS clients on the way (as I heard on #twitter). They're welcome, but I'd bet actual money in that they won't think about maintaining iOS 5 compatibility and thus won't work either on iPad 1s. I won't be getting a new iPad in at least 6 months, just spent a sh*tload in a new Macbook and a second-hand sewing machine... Next year's expenses may include a new iPad. May not :S |
Author: | jlaire [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
leichtloeslich wrote: Code: [0:05] GregorS: hey, what are the "system requirements" for running nova? [0:05] GregorS: as in browser version, things like javascript, cookies or whatever. [0:05] matburt: GregorS: as long as it supports websockets and isn't an ipad 1 at the moment Code: Q: Hey, what equipment do I need to play Go? As in board, stones or whatever. A: As long as the board is made from Kaya and the stones aren't glass, you're good to go. Websockets are cool and shiny but depending on them in a project that has hundreds of users...? Sounds like yet another case where the developers would rather do fun and interesting stuff than build something that's usable and works well. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, though. |
Author: | DrStraw [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
leichtloeslich wrote: DrStraw wrote: when I clicked on it all I got was a big empty box with labels "blitz", "live" and "long" below it. Nothing else. Well, that's the seek graph. If everything was working normally that would mean there were simply no open challenges when you checked. But I suspect there might be something wrong on your end, maybe a javascript/browser issue or something? Ah, all those little gray rectangles are supposed to be games! I thought that was just an error in the representation of something. Strange way to represent them and somewhat wasteful of space on the screen because they don't provide any extra information which is not available in the list below. |
Author: | dfunkt [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: The new OGS |
DrStraw wrote: leichtloeslich wrote: DrStraw wrote: when I clicked on it all I got was a big empty box with labels "blitz", "live" and "long" below it. Nothing else. Well, that's the seek graph. If everything was working normally that would mean there were simply no open challenges when you checked. But I suspect there might be something wrong on your end, maybe a javascript/browser issue or something? Ah, all those little gray rectangles are supposed to be games! I thought that was just an error in the representation of something. Strange way to represent them and somewhat wasteful of space on the screen because they don't provide any extra information which is not available in the list below. I guess you never had an OGS account since after the server merge the duplicate accounts were merged. I see zero games in your profile. If you would like to offer some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, perhaps you should play some games to get a real feel for the server instead of bashing it with uninformed opinions. If you don't like the seek graph, present your view in the feedback section of OGS and suggest an alternative method of displaying game offers. For my part, I think seek graphs are terrific. When there are many games open it graphically represent all the offers on the least amount of screen real estate. When you hover over a dot on the graph you get information on the offer. It's much easier than scrolling down a long list of games. Although, if you prefer that the list is also available. Some people just gripe for the sake of being difficult. |
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