Life In 19x19

Posted: **Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:51 pm**

Magicwand wrote:if white cut as below...black will be in trouble.
i will have to think about why...but i know the answer is to cut.
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is one of my favourite positions. There's one more thing to do before the cut, though. I know two variations (hidden for brevity):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black tries to separate (b), White can cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . 7 . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, Black can protect the cut, and White gets a large(-ish) corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Second variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A similar position. Black can still protect the cut (a), and again, White gets a large corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The other option for Black is the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is a nice tesuji. Black can't play at 'a':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 B 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W W B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black is in trouble here. Instead, Black should play at

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 # 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W W B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the typical joseki, Black does not exchange

for

... a slight advantage for White over the usual joseki, as Black has wasted some aji.

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am**

ez4u, of course I know that your analysis usually does apply, and usually the hane is bad. But how about this case? I see this:
1)

and

have a beautiful relationship with the marked stone.
2) Black has sente to play

, which is huge and makes ALL black stones work together.
3) Black can still look forward to a move like 'a', to connect all the stones and make the moyo reach out over the whole board.
4) If black would've blocked on the other side to begin with, that would have been gote.

Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@Magicwand:

That second diagramme was more like a joke of course

But is your variation really playable?? I just see white dying with no compensation. There is not even a decent squeeze, I think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 1 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:58 am**

I think the next round can start, right?

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:14 am**

gaius wrote:Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?

Sounds like it's a comparison between:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not strong enough to say, but it feels like swings and roundabouts to me.

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:15 am**

topazg wrote:
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not strong enough to say, but it feels like swings and roundabouts to me.

why is

needed in that situation? can B kill otherwise ?
sente seems pretty big here so i would be tempted to tenuki as W if my corner can stay alive

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:27 am**

It's not necessary in an absolute sense, but this is pretty painful locally:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc (Ladder requirement notwithstanding) $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O 3 O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 5 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 5 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:25 am**

HermanHiddema wrote:I think the next round can start, right?

Before all the other questions, I think this is key. The rounds have been slower than expected. Can we make some progress before 2012 rolls around?

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:52 am**

gaius wrote:ez4u, of course I know that your analysis usually does apply, and usually the hane is bad. But how about this case? I see this:
1) and have a beautiful relationship with the marked stone.
2) Black has sente to play , which is huge and makes ALL black stones work together.
3) Black can still look forward to a move like 'a', to connect all the stones and make the moyo reach out over the whole board.
4) If black would've blocked on the other side to begin with, that would have been gote.

Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...

I don't claim to really understand this stuff, but it seems to me that although Black has some nice frameworks here and there, he actually has no territory. Is it going to be enough? I think that White has all kinds of invasion points (see 'a' below). Also Black has some difficulty in how to close the bottom right - it has a poor relationship with the bottom left because White has an easy slide along the bottom.

in the diagram above (marked stone below) might be better at 'b' because it would leave a follow-up play at 'c'. After

below, I would not feel very worried as White, since the pressure would be on Black to show how to profit from the plays so far. (P.S. I just got back from dinner with a friend, so if none of this makes sense I blame it on the 2 1/2 bottles of wine consumed.

)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . a a . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:29 pm**

HermanHiddema wrote:I think the next round can start, right?

Yes, it can. But October 17th is a big day for taxes ( April 15 plus the standard 6-month extension plus a weekend ) So, I'll probably not have pairings up until the 18th or late on the 17th.

Posted: **Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:33 am**

Why aren't the pairings automated, like almost all tournaments are? I think this will do a great deal to minimize effort and have the tournament move along faster.

Posted: **Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:00 am**

Is the next round going forward?

Posted: **Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:27 pm**

UPPER BRACKET PAIRINGS - ROUND 4

Code: Select all

Greendemon vs Shadonra
Quantunf vs Laman
Bilapidate vs Kodomo
Stalkor vs Lefuet
Kirby vs Venkman
Marcus vs Lindentree
Lavalamp vs DuskEagle
Lorill vs Redundant

LOWER BRACKET PAIRINGS - ROUND 4

Code: Select all

Terracotta vs Chew
Jtscarry   vs Tofu
f4223n354  vs Aphelion
Psychee    vs ChradH
LiKao      vs Hushfield
CSamurai   vs TimoJ
Oren       vs Gurujeet
Karaklis   vs bye

[/size]

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:54 am**

Lorill and I will be playing on Tuesday at 2pm EDT (8pm CEST).

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:19 am**

why does this "bye" guy keep losing but is still allowed to continue

? so unfair ...

reminds me of this "max" guy who never showed up at any exam nor lesson but always had the best grades

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:38 am**

He's not losing. He beat bye last round.
Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the sgf.

Life In 19x19

L19 2011/2012 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS