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3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=72

Page 14 of 20

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:49 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm114 Move 114 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . W X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:18 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm115 Move 115 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok, I counted. White has around 80. Black is a little harder to count. We have 40 certain points with a lot of potential. Violence's move says he wants to make cash in the center. (I would pay money to know if he agreed with my last choice or is just making the best of things...) This move makes around 20 points, with the option for some more. J4 is worth about 25 points (swing value). However, this might be sente, but J4 is gote as hell. If we get half of the center, J4, and either invade the top left or convert the top into points, we will have a very close game. Below is the sequence I expect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm115 Move 115 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . 4 2 3 . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O 5 , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:46 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm116 Move 116 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:22 am
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm117 Move 117 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . O 1 . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
couple of reasons to atari here. one, if white plays to protect the atari'd stone blacks moyo gets bigger. two it creates a possible ko.... and three, i don't want white in my moyo!!!

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:43 am
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm118 Move 118 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . 1 O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I tried to find something else beyond basic instinct, like a counter atari, for instance, but I didn't like any alternative I could find. So basic instinct it is.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:50 am
by Violence
It seems like daniel's being the most sane so far, so I'll attempt to seal Magicwand's moves and leave it to daniel.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Move 119 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:53 am
by daniel_the_smith
I forgot to mention it in my analysis, but I thought that Violence might force here first. I will play J4 after Magicwand responds.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:18 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Move 119 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:32 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Move 121 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O 1 , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That's a cool 25 points for us assuming I counted and read correctly. I think this game is close. We might be a few points behind; it depends on what happens on the top next.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:45 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm122 Move 122 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kinda annoyed that daniel got that point. It would have been so much nicer if Phelan did last round :D

Still, let's throw a curveball peep. Eyeing up all that aji at the following points:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm122 Move 122 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . d . . c . b . 1 . a . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:26 am
by Magicwand
i wanted to play same move for so long..i am happy he thinks like i do :)

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:37 am
by Phelan
I think I'm losing track of what's happening in this game. Also, I hope I can find the followup to that corner invasion... :-?

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:14 am
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm123 Move 123 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
After much debate i decided on this move because because it forces white to play to prevent the cut, and reinforces black for the fight coming in the corner.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:26 am
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Move 124 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O 1 O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . X . . . X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . X . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . X O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X . O X O . X . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I hadn't seen this move by Jordus. I don't think ignoring it and threatening to connect the white stones is big enough to allow the capture of those 3.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:30 am
by daniel_the_smith
The last two moves were both mistakes. I think Violence will now play something that prevents white from living at all in there.
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Page 14 of 20

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