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Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:45 am
by Bantari
jts wrote:
deja wrote:A little clarity from Louis CK on modern technology and issues of lag. Warning: explicit stuff but funny as hell.

http://youtu.be/KpUNA2nutbk
Relative to sitting in caves scratching the dirt with sticks, the internet is pretty cool. But once you decide to do something on the internet that could have been done in person, or through the mail, and a technical failure fouls it up, the internet is irritating. You don't need to be a genius to understand that.
True.
But I don't find it more irritating than when the mail loses your package or standing in line at DMV for 4 hours, and stuff like that. Lets face it - this is a complex world, and whatever we do, every now and then we bump into good reasons to get irritated. Internet is no exception.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:22 pm
by duckweed
hyperpape wrote:
duckweed wrote:You will need admins to work with you to perform tests from their side to eliminate it as a network issue first.
...you must be new around here.

I am.

And from a newbie perspective the unlimited 'likes' feature in this forum seems to have generated a high school clique like culture ?

Basically,

1. 'like' people who 'like' your posts.

2. 'like' people who post against people who you dislike.

3. 'like' the all the posts of the people in the your clique.

Its a war of 'likes' out here !

Anyone feels the same about this?

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:26 pm
by Bantari
duckweed wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
duckweed wrote:You will need admins to work with you to perform tests from their side to eliminate it as a network issue first.
...you must be new around here.

I am.

And from a newbie perspective the unlimited 'likes' feature in this forum seems to have generated a high school clique like culture ?

Basically,

1. 'like' people who 'like' your posts.

2. 'like' people who post against people who you dislike.

3. 'like' the all the posts of the people in the your clique.

Its a war of 'like's out here !

Anyone feels the same about this?
Nope.
Personally, I 'like' the posts I like, regardless who posts them. I hope this feeling is reciprocated.

However - I do wonder about the reason for the 'like' button. Maybe its to cut on 'me too' posts? What does many 'likes' give you?

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:40 pm
by skydyr
duckweed wrote: I am.

And from a newbie perspective the unlimited 'likes' feature in this forum seems to have generated a high school clique like culture ?

Basically,

1. 'like' people who 'like' your posts.

2. 'like' people who post against people who you dislike.

3. 'like' the all the posts of the people in the your clique.

Its a war of 'likes' out here !

Anyone feels the same about this?
No?

I see likes as having a few features:

- Easy way to find posts I want to bookmark, in a way
- Way of giving credit to helpful people that's vaguely tangible
- Encourages posts that people like to read, whether because of humour or knowledge

I've never noticed any cliquishness about them, and don't like particular people or against particular people. In my experience, the people who gather the most likes are the ones who contribute to the forum frequently and who often contribute helpfully or interestingly. I suppose you could call more frequent posters a clique, but it seems odd to expect that less frequent posters would generate more likes.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:44 pm
by Boidhre
duckweed wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
duckweed wrote:You will need admins to work with you to perform tests from their side to eliminate it as a network issue first.
...you must be new around here.

I am.

And from a newbie perspective the unlimited 'likes' feature in this forum seems to have generated a high school clique like culture ?

Basically,

1. 'like' people who 'like' your posts.

2. 'like' people who post against people who you dislike.

3. 'like' the all the posts of the people in the your clique.

Its a war of 'likes' out here !

Anyone feels the same about this?
I've seen similar features on other sites being used aggressively by people to belittle others. As in sarcastically liking someone's posts after making it very clear to them that you think they're an idiot. Or liking posts breaking the rules that abuse another user and similar. You also get, well, like wars where you have trench warfare between two groups and heavy liking going on of posts making petty point scoring attempts at the "enemy," 99% of the time though they're just used to show you found a post useful, insightful, funny or the poster said what you were going to say. Just like on here.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:06 pm
by Bonobo
Bantari wrote:[..] I do wonder about the reason for the 'like' button.
I’ve never wondered about these, or about “thank you” or “Karma” buttons. What I do wonder about is why some people in other forums seem to fish for likes/karma/thankyou and brag about high numbers (having lived on this planet for over half a century, I actually don’t wonder), but I have never observed such behaviour here (I think I’ve been here for about 2.5 years now which, to me, seems a long enough time to have an opinion).
Maybe its to cut on 'me too' posts?
Possible, but perhaps those programmers also think a little bit like me :-)
What does many 'likes' give you?
I’m actually more interested in liking than in being liked :-)

I click “like” when I like what I read, which may be for different reasons,the raisins being … helpful (i.e. I learnt something, or I think it is helpful for others), funny, friendly, thought-/mindful, caring, informative, etc. Cleverness alone usually is not enough for me to click. I click “like” to express my appreciation towards somebody for investing their time in meaningful communication.

I won’t deny, though, that it usually makes me happy if somebody liked what I wrote (although sometimes I wonder what exactly they liked), but I write what I write because *I* like it, and not in order to be liked by others.

I usually *do* hope that others like it, but this does not mean that I wish they clicked any button, but I rather wish it would be … helpful, informative, funny, etc. (see list above what I like). Seeing that somebody actually clicked the button is just a small sign that somebody liked it, which is nice to know, especially if the thread contains no direct feedback to the post/comment the person liked.

The impression of “cliques” that you, Duckweed, write about, is probably just related to what somebody wrote previously about internet & politics, and I guess it can be expected that people with similar mindsets “like” each other’s stuff more often than that of people with other views, but this is certainly not exclusive. Actually, it makes me happy when I can click “like” for somebody’s writing whose texts I usually don’t like that much. I guess I like crossing bridges/canyons :-D

In the same direction, I think, goes the following observation of my own reading behaviour: Sometimes I notice that some people have many “likes”, but that I often either don’t understand or dissent with what’s been written. In such cases the “likes” give me reason to reconsider, and to watch more closely, because … maybe I really didn’t understand, maybe I can attain a new perspective … and also similar thoughts/feelings when somebody whose stuff I usually don’t really appreciate “likes” some of mine, this also often leads me to reading theirs with more patience to think about what they have meant.

Greetings, Tom

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 pm
by BigDoug
Hello,

I may agree with a person during this discussion and like their comments. I may disagree with the same person in another discussion and not like their comments (even though I'd probably like them if I change my mind later). I won't like based on the person -- it's based on whether I agree with their points on the subject at hand.

Regards,
Doug

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:34 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
[admin]
I may like if they stick to the subject of the thread. :cool:
[/admin]

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:19 am
by LocoRon
Joaz Banbeck wrote:[admin]
I may like if they stick to the subject of the thread. :cool:
[/admin]
Don't worry Joaz. They're just preparing for the discussion regarding the future of "likes" in KGS' browser client.

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:10 am
by EdLee

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:28 am
by hyperpape
Duckweed, my post was probably too ambiguous for its own good. I don't think you wrote anything unreasonable, but my perception is that KGS admins are not likely to work with you, so much as tell you that there is no lag, or rather that whatever lag you experience is probably on your end. My comment was intended to say that you had a charming faith in the system.

I guess they're probably right about the lag, btw, I just don't know how we'd really know that :scratch: At least with the earlier suggestion, that the client itself is laggy, someone can monitor their own machine to see when packets are being sent, and if there were some client side-lag, I'm confident that it would have been seen by now. So my uninformed assumption is that the client is not producing any slowness. But as far as any slowness on the server-side, it's just "trust us!", things are ok.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:53 am
by skydyr
hyperpape wrote:Duckweed, my post was probably too ambiguous for its own good. I don't think you wrote anything unreasonable, but my perception is that KGS admins are not likely to work with you, so much as tell you that there is no lag, or rather that whatever lag you experience is probably on your end. My comment was intended to say that you had a charming faith in the system.

I guess they're probably right about the lag, btw, I just don't know how we'd really know that :scratch: At least with the earlier suggestion, that the client itself is laggy, someone can monitor their own machine to see when packets are being sent, and if there were some client side-lag, I'm confident that it would have been seen by now. So my uninformed assumption is that the client is not producing any slowness. But as far as any slowness on the server-side, it's just "trust us!", things are ok.
One other thing to consider is that java itself can be fairly slow if there's a lot of other stuff running on the computer and/or it's an older machine.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:30 pm
by duckweed
The most important part of filing a bug report is that you give the set of conditions that reproduces the bug.

If your bug is not reproducible by the developer it will probably never get fixed.

If your bug report just consist of "It lags", I really can't blame the admins for being unable to assist you. Its just not good enough.

There are many sites that describes how to file a good bug report.

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:16 pm
by hyperpape
If a server has intermittently slow response times, you can't file a bug report against that. We're dealing with that problem here on L19--no one can write a real reproducible bug report because there's not much of a pattern--certainly no pattern a user can trigger. The only response is to carefully measure the server's performance and response time, and crunch the stats. That can be easy or hard, depending on your setup (heroku's queueing problem).

Re: The future of KGS

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:31 pm
by billywoods
duckweed wrote:give the set of conditions that reproduces the bug.
This only works if the bug is triggered by a set of conditions that I have any control over. If, from my perspective, it changes like the wind, that's all I can report. (I confess I'm rather doubtful that my report will ever make it to the developer anyway, and I know he's received similar reports in the past. And if the new HTML client appears and runs smoothly, it might never matter anyway.)