Magicwand vs. Kirby: Comeback Match!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:30 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm151 Has Captured: B - 5, W - 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X O . X O O . . O O X O X . X . | $$ | . X . X . X X X O , . . . O O X X O . | $$ | X . X X . . . O X O . O . O X . O . . | $$ | X . . X O . . . X O . . X X X . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . X . X O . O . . . . X X . | $$ | 2 O O X O X . . X X O . O O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O X O O . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X O X . X . X O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . X O O X X . . . X O . . | $$ | . X . X O O O X O . . . . O . X O O . | $$ | . X . X . . X O O . O O . . . X X O . | $$ | . X O O O O X X X . O X . O . . . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O . X . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . X X . X X . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:35 pm

no point in continuing.
i resign.

congratulation!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:36 pm

Thanks for playing, Magicwand. Now, I know you are not invincible. Would you like to play again at 4 stones?

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:39 pm

set it up! i will start after i go home

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:40 pm

Thank you very much, sir.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:13 pm

Magicwand wrote:...i will try to explain to best of my ability.
every move he played is a dan level move.
but there are some difference between his global reading and my global reading.

for example his H3 pincer. this move look good because he is attacking my lonely stone and avoid me attacking him.
but i wouldn't play this move if i was kirby. i would have played @ D6. to tell you the truth i can not be 100% sure if my choice is better but i will give you my reason so you can think about the difference.
because he played the pincer first i get to block the left side in sente and stablized my white group.
in my opinion he missed the flow of the game. it is better for him to let me attack his stone than the actual game of getting blocked and letting me stablize the group in sente. i guess because i played many many many taugh handycap games i can feel the differnece. it is suttle but i think it will make a world of difference at the end.

i hope this answered your question. if you have more question feel free to ask anytime ...

This comment makes me feel that something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Diagram A $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is better for black than something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Diagram B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X . . X . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Am I getting this correct? I'm not sure that I understand the concept of the "flow of the game".

Could you elaborate more on why Diagram A is better than Diagram B?

How can I understand the "flow of the game"?

palapiku · Post by **palapiku** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:17 pm

Well, for one, Diagram A is Black's move...

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:03 pm

I'm too weak to have much of a meaningful opinion here, but I can give you my feeling watching the two moves. Diagram A feels like Black is trying to win the game. Diagram B feels like Black is trying to not lose and just avoid mistakes.

Jedo · Post by **Jedo** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:44 pm

I must say that I like the second diagram alot better than the first. It looks to me like more active playing than the first, and there is an effort being made to attack white. Is this wrong?

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:36 pm

The second diagram makes me feel that Black is trying to deny White everything, and the end result is like trying to hold water with paper - when White does come out you get enclosed and it becomes an exercise in just holding on to all your groups - which probably won't work if 5 stones is the right handicap.

In the second diagram its very controlled, Black made sure that White can only get something in the bottom, and freely gives the attack to white - with the caveat that trying to kill is quite difficult indeed.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:57 pm

I can kind of get this idea from MW's comment alone, but I was hoping for something a bit more concrete, maybe...

schilds · Post by **schilds** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:10 pm

I would put it down to how much work that extra stone is doing. To me, the bottom middle black stone really only serves to split the two white groups. An extra stone there has little potential to make territory and doesn't make it any safer because (with the stone at tengen and an extra stone on the left side as in diagram A) it already has reasonable potential for connecting out globally.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:20 am

Just my thoughts, before MW explains further. The first diagram ends with black sente, right? While the second seems more intuitive to me, let's look a little further down the line.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:33 am

I kind of like that flow, Chew.

Jedo · Post by **Jedo** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:15 pm

Would white really play :w2:

? I'm not so sure as it seems heavy. Might white just shut down the black stone instead with something like K4, albeit with aji remaining? After all, white doesn't have to be too concerned with that stone since the corner is still open.

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Magicwand vs. Kirby: Comeback Match!

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