$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Where are you going wind? Far, far away ...
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:29 am
by Loons
Easy tsumego time- Black to kill the marked white stones. Bonus: I think there is only one correct answer. Do you agree?
$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . W . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W . W X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W . . W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 2 X X 1 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . W W . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . W . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W . W X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W . . W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 2 X X 1 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . W W . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My answer:
T13. T13 S9 T9 R11 S10 easy dead. (Edited to not accidentally give a ko when I don't pay enough attention to Q13 sente)
Not: S11 T13 S10 S9 T9 R11 S10 S14 R14 Dying in double ko is better than just dying, so T13 should be considered the only answer. NB if white slips in Q13 sente, black must not carelessly respond at Q14.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:18 am
by Laman
Loons:
i think black S9 also kills, but T13 is easier
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:28 am
by Loons
@Laman
Do you mean S11? My goal was to point out that double ko is worse than normal death, but I realize my wording was not clear about that.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:41 am
by Laman
Loons:
i meant S9, but didn't read very carefully. it fails
$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . W . 2 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W . W X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W . 4 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X W . 3 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . W W 1 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . W . 2 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W . W X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W . 4 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X W . 3 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . W W 1 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:15 pm
by Kirby
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O 6 O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O 6 O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't think I can get sente to help my center stones. I hope I can save them despite playing second.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:53 pm
by Marcus
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 7 X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 7 X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b17: is a critical point. If White gets the chance to play here, there are a few ways to set up a snapback. I need to play here. Now, is the right side dead? I still need to finish the Monkey Jump sequence with T13 in order to keep the pressure on ... and I'm not sure if that even kills after White plays S9.
Let's see what Kirby's reading comes up with ...
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:36 pm
by Kirby
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O 8 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O 8 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm quitting go for awhile if I lose this game.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:51 pm
by EdLee
Kirby,
Kirby wrote:I'm quitting go for awhile if I lose this game.
Famous last words.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:32 pm
by Loons
Also @Kirby
What were your thoughts (however briefly) on this? I thought some of the forcing moves might be useful.
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 6 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 6 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:48 pm
by Marcus
I see a ko right now ... and I have a lot of ways to use it, I think ...
$$Bcm19 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O a O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 3 5 C | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , 6 2 7 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 4 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm19 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O a O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 3 5 C | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , 6 2 7 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 4 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now, do I prefer this, or should I immediately cut at a?
I'm going to have to think a bit about this.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:45 am
by Kirby
Loons wrote:Also @Kirby
What were your thoughts (however briefly) on this? I thought some of the forcing moves might be useful.
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 6 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 6 5 X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
@Loons:
Well, playing that way first let's me get the marked white move in sente:
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X O X X W . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O a O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X O X X W . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O a O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But if I wanted that move in sente, I'd just as soon play it to begin with:
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X 6 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . 5 X 6 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can tenuki from the right group (even with that move as sente) - and that's what I really wanted to do.
So as a compromise, I figured, I might as well save the marked stone, if I'm getting gote anyway:
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . W . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . W . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now that I've played gote, I'm alive on the right. The bad part is, he can attack my group in the center, now.
I had really wanted to get sente to help the center group. I would probably have started out with a move like this if I had:
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now, I'm not really sure what's going to happen. Marcus gets to play in the center first, so my success will depend on saving the center stones after being the second person to play in that area...
That's what I'm thinking, anyway. I could be wrong. After all, why did I get myself into this mess in the first place?
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:06 am
by Kirby
@Loons:
Now that I've posted to you, I started thinking about the right more, and maybe I'm not even alive there for sure :-p
I was thinking of this:
$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But black can do this, of course:
$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O 9 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 7 @ marked spot $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O 9 1 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 2 5 W | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X 8 . 4 3 | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O 6 | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think my reading is pretty weak right now... I keep hallucinating.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:41 pm
by Marcus
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 9 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . 9 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O . . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok ... I've read as far as I can read, and playing at G14 immediately here doesn't guarantee I will kill the center stones. On the other hand, I will dfinitely gain from a ko on the right, whether by killing the group or with a decent sized ko threat ... there may be another possible ko in the upper left, too ... but I bet Kirby will sacrifice a couple stones to prevent that one ...
Also, I should still be able to harass the center stones for a bit more profit ... maybe this game isn't quite lost yet ... but I'm not sure ... I'll try counting again soon.
Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:21 pm
by Kirby
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 0 . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . . O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X . O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O 0 . O | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
