[go]$$ $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . B . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . B O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O B O . . B O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B B . . B O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O B . B . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
For example, instead of at (a), if B played , then the (b) area could become big? I was worried about , but had no time to do anything about it. So I thought (a) gave me a chance to take first (as ).
$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm85 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . b 1 O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , a 2 O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I am not confident on the correct use of this cut yet.
Edit: I worked out what I was trying to say with 'a' and 'b'. If black plays @ directly and white fixes at 'a', black will be able to take the peep at 'b'. However, the proverb says: "Never peep where you can cut!" Just, the order is a bit wonky with my application .
Hah, sniped by Magicwand
Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:26 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm85 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 2 O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm85 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 2 O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
(Feel free to disagree with )
Well, whatever comes next does seem like the only move. After which is also an only move*. atari at 86 leaves white with better shape options after . is necessary to stop white playing "driving" atari to take control of the centre.
*Probably not an only move; I somehow overlooked trying at eg. K5** until seconds after hitting "submit."
**Well, maybe not K5 specifically. There was more reading to be done, in any case; there might have been a good shortage of liberties trick against M4 group. Or maybe hane instead and allow white to M8 cut given he would probably "lose" that fight. Erg. Eh.
I am happy with the game move.
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:57 pm
by EdLee
Thanks, Loons. was the only move. (p)
B missed a chance with . If W blocks with , B cuts off in sente:
$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , 3 O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O 1 . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . 2 O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , 3 O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O 1 . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . 2 O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:01 pm
by EdLee
Hmm... (a) to capture , or (b)...?
$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . a B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . a B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:42 pm
by EdLee
$$Wm88 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Wm88 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
(p)
Wrong choice. W should've captured with . Now the center is dame. (a) and (b) are miai, so W is OK at the corner:
$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . a X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . a X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:02 pm
by EdLee
Last night I was tired yet still wanted to play, but somehow restrained myself to wait, and it was a good choice, I think. I even saw Loons on KGS and told him as much. (And found out his time zone is 19 hours ahead, almost one full day in the future! )
Back in Post #215, I considered perhaps (a) and (b) were miai:
$$ Var. 1 $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$ Var. 1 $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
So if , I should take :
$$B $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$B $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Which is the same shape as in the real game -- since B can always do the exchange -- only the order was different:
$$B $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . W O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$B $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . W O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
So if I changed my mind and captured the stone with , it means letting B take both and -- both (a) and (b) in Var. 1:
$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . Y . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$W $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . Y . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 B O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Somehow I had confused myself -- maybe still tired from Congress and other projects -- and I'm glad I took the sleep first, and the the above tewari came to me in the shower.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:14 pm
by EdLee
2-month snapshot:
m88.jpg (74.9 KiB) Viewed 8983 times
Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:00 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm89 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm89 Prisoners: $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X O X X . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
A synopsis of my reading: I have to (and am happy to) save my cutting stone, this also makes my bottom group safer. L4 instead, reducing Ed's liberties does not threaten anything other than a few forcing moves after Ed gets to tenuki, and gains one less liberty than the game move. The game move threatens to net Ed's cut off stones.
I'll try and post a useful working count soon.
Edit: I think I'm about 14 points down, including komi. I still have H17 yose and should gain points in the centre. Diagram later.
somehow, so move pending...
area seems a bit over-concentrated for B...
at (a), if B played 
).
@ 
directly and white fixes at 'a', black will be able to take the peep at 'b'. However, the proverb says: "Never peep where you can cut!" Just, the order is a bit wonky with my application 
.
)
in sente:
. Now the center is dame.
and 
-- both (a) and (b) in Var. 1:
the the above tewari came to me in the shower.