Project Shodan, KGS nick - Vladimir

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:53 am

You're right. This is the first win vs 6k with proper handicap.

foeZ · Post by **foeZ** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:43 pm

Toge wrote:Sorry to bring in rain cloud: even game requires komi of 6,5 points. Your opponent got handicap of going second for no compensation. Well done anyway.

Well if he won by more than 6,5 points he still won an "even" game :p

moyoaji · Post by **moyoaji** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:28 am

foeZ wrote:Well if he won by more than 6,5 points he still won an "even" game :p

I once played a game where I had an 80 point reverse komi against me. In an effort to win, I decided to make the game all about a giant fight in the center. In the end, my opponent managed to live and I was only ahead by about 50 points before the reverse komi. Another player in the club said: "Wow, I guess he only needed a 50 point komi against you." To which I said quite honestly, "If I wasn't facing an 80 point handicap I would never have fought like that in the middle. I would have let him live and built up outside influence." I figured playing like that I could win by 60-70 points assuming my opponent didn't let all of my influence become points and I could probably get to 80+ if I played out yose correctly, but I knew I would win for sure if his group died, so I started a giant fight. For this reason you can never say that a different komi would lead to the same result.

It is true that no komi in an amateur game often means nothing; the one taking white doesn't play differently and the result would have been the same either way, but you can't say that. I once beat a guy by 30+ in a no komi game at a tournament and it only counted as a win with a one-stone handicap - which is the only fair way to do it. Arguably my opponent wouldn't have played as aggressively if he wasn't facing a handicap.

lemmata · Post by **lemmata** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:31 pm

Toge wrote:Sorry to bring in rain cloud: even game requires komi of 6,5 points. Your opponent got handicap of going second for no compensation. Well done anyway.

...and here comes the sunshine: There's enough variance at that level that he has a nontrivial chance of beating a 4 kyu, too.

That said, I agree with the broader point that he should be happy about his progress, which seems to be real, rather than about beating someone of a particular rank. Good luck, chap.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:48 pm

lemmata wrote:That said, I agree with the broader point that he should be happy about his progress, which seems to be real, rather than about beating someone of a particular rank. Good luck, chap.

I don't know, finally beating that stronger player in the club at a certain handicap is quite nice. There are no nicer words to hear than "You're getting fewer stones next time" from a regular opponent.

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:29 am

lemmata wrote:Good luck, chap.

Thanx, mate.

In other news, in July I decided to play games only if I know I'll have enough time to finish them undisturbed.
It seems that it's a good approach. I played 4 games in July, 2 vs 7k, 2 vs 6k, and I won all 4.

It seems that I still don't understand difference between playing to win and playing to improve. For me, it's the same. I can't know if I improved if I keep having the same percentage of wins vs opponents of same strength. So, I'll just keep playing serious games and keep trying to win. So far, so good.

Another thing I noticed about ranking system of KGS. The more games you play, the more wins you need to improve.
In example: if I played only 5 games to reach 7k on KGS, I could easily go to 6k or 5k in just a couple of wins. But, if I played 250 games to reach 7k, I'm gonna need so much more wins to go to 6k.
Ponderation of improvement in rank by wins with total number of games is consequence of the system that determines your rank very fast when you register at KGS, so at the beginning you can change your rank faster. With every game, changes in rank are smaller and smaller.

I think it would be better to apply this ponderation only for the first 10 games on server or so (in purpose of determining KGS starting rank) and, after that, to determine unique ponder for every win (with all combination of opponents' strength) so your rank change in a linear fashion (if your improvement really is linear). With ponderation with total number of games played, you have to play more and more games so your rank could keep up with your real improvement.

Or, maybe, my observations are wrong and all previously said is my mistake and rank progression is not pondered by total number of games played.

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:13 am

You're right, KGS ratings will move slower the more games you have in the last 6 months. Make a new account if it's moving too slowly for your progress.

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:33 am

Stupid, isn't it? We got punished for playing 100+ games a month.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:38 am

vpopovic wrote:Stupid, isn't it? We got punished for playing 100+ games a month.

No, the system becomes more certain of your rank. It's good and bad, it means you don't get the sudden jumps up after a handful of games but equally you don't have the sudden drops from a small number of games either. I really wouldn't worry about it, if your strength truly is 6k then you won't stay a 7k and so on.

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:42 am

Yes, but I have a time limit. Got to prove to myself that becoming shodan till May 1st 2014. is possible

moyoaji · Post by **moyoaji** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:23 am

Well, we still need to get in another game at some point. Getting to shodan by May is quite possible, but after beating some 6 kyus, can you beat me?

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:27 am

I hope so

We'll see that these days. Can't wait, to be honest.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:39 am

vpopovic wrote:Yes, but I have a time limit. Got to prove to myself that becoming shodan till May 1st 2014. is possible

It won't matter what your rank says if you've gone 50/50 win/loss against a decent number of KGS 1ds.

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:03 am

The amount of time it takes you to get from 7k to 1d isn't going to be strongly affected by how long it takes you to get from 7k to 6k. You should definitely ask in the L19 room if you want harder opponents.

vpopovic · Post by **vpopovic** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:17 am

Boidhre wrote:It won't matter what your rank says if you've gone 50/50 win/loss against a decent number of KGS 1ds.

I agree.

jts wrote:The amount of time it takes you to get from 7k to 1d isn't going to be strongly affected by how long it takes you to get from 7k to 6k. You should definitely ask in the L19 room if you want harder opponents.

I will when I'm logged through desktop. 95% of the time, I'm logged in via Android client and it doesn't support rooms.

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Project Shodan, KGS nick - Vladimir

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Re: Project Shodan, KGS nick - Vladimir