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Big Brother Malkovich #5

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=8271

Page 15 of 20

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 pm
by TIM82
Approved. :tmbup:

I sure have no idea how this will end up, but at least it should be fun. I like little brothes spirit :)

Some unrefined ideas, which make this seem feasible for us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12: Marked stone = 54
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 0 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 5 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 6 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:35 am
by skydyr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 8 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems to be the only move.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:16 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Agreed: it is the only move. I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:25 am
by Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've done lots of reading, but I'm not sure how to condense that in to a post since I really don't know which lines to expect. Black's strongest resistance seems to be to connect with F11, but I'm not sure how much damage that actually does to my centre group. It obviously damages the G11 stone, but it doesn't threaten to seal me in. Assuming I do reply to it though, here's one possible continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 11 at marked white stone
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 9 6 X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can sacrifice the two stones and build outside influence, which I'm not sure is worth it, but it does seem to activate the cut at a.


Edit:

I've decided I do like this because black's C14 area is still reduceable (and if white gets to play there black looks overconcentrated) and there is some significant aji in his position, so I don't think black gets as much from this trade as it seems he does.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 am
by TIM82
Approved. Let the fun begin :rambo:

although at glance I'm not a fan of Splatted's sacrifice plan. Perhaps 3 at 11 in his diagram? But there are so many options open right now - lets see where this goes.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:32 pm
by skydyr
Still thinking...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 4 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 5 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 1 O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 6 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 9 . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Taking this side looks interesting except that it seems to damage the H15 group...

More later. Short on time so no comments, just sequences, really.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:51 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
For observers:
skydyr wrote:Still thinking...

I hope his next post will indicate that he is thinking about extending from the D9 stone. This is a crosscut, after all, and the proverb tells us that one should extend from a crosscut. E10 has room to run, and some white attempts to chase it turn out to be aji keshi. But D9 can be laddered if it does not get an extension.
I don't know what is best here, but both extensions should be on the short list.

Younger brother seems to be favoring the C12/E12 group a lot. They may be expendable. They are good for territory only if we play D14 in gote. But establishing a group around D7 may be worth more.

EDIT: Actually, there are 3 possible extension from D9. C8 feels bad intuitively, but it might work.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 am
by Splatted
bump.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:02 am
by skydyr
Sorry, I've been busy and haven't decided as yet. I'm still thinking about this, though.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:16 am
by Splatted
That's fine. I just thought you might have forgotten it was your turn. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:25 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
skydyr wrote:...I'm still thinking about this, though.

:clap:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:59 am
by skydyr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 0 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . 5 . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 3 . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So many choices, and I can't see anything spectacular, so I'm going to sacrifice on the left to keep up the attack. It should give me some aji for the endgame on the left as well.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:31 am
by Splatted
Now I can't rember all the reading I did. :lol:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:25 am
by Joaz Banbeck
skydyr wrote:...I can't see anything spectacular, so I'm going to sacrifice on the left...


If this logic is good, then the move is good. :scratch:

But my first reaction is that white has some bad aji on the left: in particular they still owe a move around B4/B5. Playing to abandon the left not only gives them an easy 15 points, it is aji keshi.

I don't like it. :grumpy:


I must read some more.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:37 am
by Splatted
Just so you all know, I'm starting uni on monday (and moving there on saturday) so my move rate might be slow for a while. I'm sure I'll be able to make time for it but things will be a little hectic at first. :salute:
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