You can sacrifice O17 and get a good result? I'm going to have to think about that one for a while and try to understand it.Cutting there and invading the corner are miai. If black cuts, you take the 3-3. If Black defends 3-3, the cut is no longer large, so you will let him take a stone or two.
edit. I guess miai is the wrong word. Basically, the original approach stone is light.
What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
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Fedya
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
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Uberdude
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
You might like to study this game I played on OGS years ago (quiller was a lot stronger than 1k, that's a timeout rank; I lost my first game to him): https://online-go.com/game/169785. Typically after the n5 wedge and atari-connect black will o4. This makes the 3-3 somewhat harder to live (q6 high vs r6 low makes a big difference) as after r3 then if black q3 blocks white's can't q2 hane and connect in sente (same idea as in http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 73#p209473) as the p3 cut doesn't work afterwards with o4, but if black cuts at o6 then that hane and connect is sente so life is fairly comfortable (maybe black wouldn't q3 block in that case). But in that game black didn't even cut, he just protected the 3-3, an interesting but somewhat greedy move. I simply tenukid, as the wedge made my outside stronger so developed my moyo. You can see that later when he cut at o6 I didn't try to save the stones but sacrificed and entered his right side moyo. I probably had some OGS games with the more normal o4 but I can't recall them atm, but that game sticks in my mind.Fedya wrote:You can sacrifice O17 and get a good result? I'm going to have to think about that one for a while and try to understand it.Cutting there and invading the corner are miai. If black cuts, you take the 3-3. If Black defends 3-3, the cut is no longer large, so you will let him take a stone or two.
edit. I guess miai is the wrong word. Basically, the original approach stone is light.
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Fedya
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I didn't get a chance to mention it this morning, but I see I've got Bill and other players suggesting I should have played a wedge (I presume something like L17) instead of O17, and Shaddy saying I got a good result from O17 (at least up until 
). That's giving me a good deal to think about, too.
I haven't gotten around to looking at Bill's review yet, but I still can't figure what I should have done with Black's right side.
). That's giving me a good deal to think about, too.I haven't gotten around to looking at Bill's review yet, but I still can't figure what I should have done with Black's right side.
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Fedya
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Bill asked me in his review:
How do I improve my positional evaluation?
That's a good question, and one that I wish I had a good answer to. I think it has something to do with my poor sense of weak and strong groups in general. In looking at the games I've posted here, I obviously have difficulty finding the weak points in my opponents' moyos. Consider, for example the position that Bill commented on back in post #193. All I could see was a big moyo, and couldn't find any way to weaken it. And then when I do try to hit my opponents' weak points, the points I pick are often not the right ones. My play at D7 in the most recent game comes to mind.Despite getting surprised like this time and again, you have not developed your spidey sense about your own weak groups. Why is that?
How do I improve my positional evaluation?
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EdLee
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Shaddy
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Try hard to notice when you have wasted stones, like the corner of an empty triangle. Think about sequences you could have played to avoid playing those wasted moves (change order, sacrifice, etc.)
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Bill Spight
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
The peep at D-07 is not a bad idea. It aims at attacking the Black stones in the bottom left. However, Black gets in the first strike.Fedya wrote:And then when I do try to hit my opponents' weak points, the points I pick are often not the right ones. My play at D7 in the most recent game comes to mind.
The reduction at E-08 is one of those basics that you should learn. Then you will pick the right play more often.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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jeromie
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
There are a couple of books that directly address the subject (e.g. Making Good Shape and Shape Up (free)), but I also think that studying joseki is a good way to learn about shape. If you look at the purpose of the various moves in a joseki, you'll start to get an idea of how far apart stones can be and still be connected, which shapes make the potential for eye space, and where there are weaknesses that the opponent can exploit for some gain. Evaluating joseki also helps you get a good picture of how strong players value territory versus influence, which is key to understanding what kind of shapes you should be making in a particular situation.Fedya wrote:What's the best way to improve knowledge of good/bad shape?
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Kirby
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Solving life and death problems probably also helps with shape.jeromie wrote:There are a couple of books that directly address the subject (e.g. Making Good Shape and Shape Up (free)), but I also think that studying joseki is a good way to learn about shape. If you look at the purpose of the various moves in a joseki, you'll start to get an idea of how far apart stones can be and still be connected, which shapes make the potential for eye space, and where there are weaknesses that the opponent can exploit for some gain. Evaluating joseki also helps you get a good picture of how strong players value territory versus influence, which is key to understanding what kind of shapes you should be making in a particular situation.Fedya wrote:What's the best way to improve knowledge of good/bad shape?
be immersed
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sparky314
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Regarding shape, the books jeromie recommended are good.
I'd also suggest a concerted effort to study tesuji in depth. Tesuji can exploit bad shape, and give good shape. Get Strong at Tesuji is a good place to start, or re-read if you've already gone through it.
And, of course, pre-2000 pro Japanese games. Maybe a walk through Shusaku's games (Invincible)?
I'd also suggest a concerted effort to study tesuji in depth. Tesuji can exploit bad shape, and give good shape. Get Strong at Tesuji is a good place to start, or re-read if you've already gone through it.
And, of course, pre-2000 pro Japanese games. Maybe a walk through Shusaku's games (Invincible)?
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jeromie
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I'll second the above, and should have thought of it before: tesuji and life and death problems do help a lot. If you do a lot (and repeat them), they will help you develop an intuition for key points. Good problem sets also show you that the intuition has to be backed up by reading, because while it's often right there are always exceptions.
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Bill Spight
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
In addition to other suggestions, study handicap games, particularly pro-pro handicap games, as Black will almost always make good shape.Fedya wrote:What's the best way to improve knowledge of good/bad shape?
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Fedya
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
The last problem I posted involved playing under the stones; this one uses the concept as well, more or less. Black to play.
Black to play.-
Kirby
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
First instinct is to reduce eyespace and place inside like this:
but...
Haha, I've got him, you think, noting the following sequence!
But then you note a twinkle in the opponent's eyes, as he flashes a toothless grin:
Oh, the agony! Foiled by "under-the-stones"! My anguish!
But then...
It's a miracle. It was only a vague hallucination - a daydream. You haven't your move yet. Thank goodness!
Easy does it. Take away the key point first.
That's right. Easy does it. Don't be hornswoggled this time!
Your opponent imagines the beautiful under-the-stones tesuji from your past hallucination, and sets up for a repeat performance.
But not this time. Alas, your wistful daydreaming has paid off.
Lightning strikes. It appears the same. Or is it?
What kind of trickery is this? The opponent glares. This is not how it was supposed to work.
Frustrated, he flips up the board and leaves. Under-the-stones will come another day... Against an opponent quicker to play, and slower to think.
but...
Haha, I've got him, you think, noting the following sequence!
But then you note a twinkle in the opponent's eyes, as he flashes a toothless grin:
Oh, the agony! Foiled by "under-the-stones"! My anguish!
But then...
It's a miracle. It was only a vague hallucination - a daydream. You haven't your move yet. Thank goodness!
Easy does it. Take away the key point first.
That's right. Easy does it. Don't be hornswoggled this time!
Your opponent imagines the beautiful under-the-stones tesuji from your past hallucination, and sets up for a repeat performance.
But not this time. Alas, your wistful daydreaming has paid off.
Lightning strikes. It appears the same. Or is it?
What kind of trickery is this? The opponent glares. This is not how it was supposed to work.
Frustrated, he flips up the board and leaves. Under-the-stones will come another day... Against an opponent quicker to play, and slower to think.
be immersed