D17 or D18!Bill Spight wrote: Is there a play that will reduce the dame count ofand
, and also meet the threat of the jump to a?
Ian Butler's Go Journal
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Playing Journal
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Playing Journal
Playing Jubango game 6 with jlt reminds me why it's good to be back playing Go 
It was a close game, and I really enjoyed it, there were some very interesting board positions.
For example, this one: (I was black)
In the end, I regretted it :p but I didn't want to double approach (don't really like those joseki, to be honest) so I decided to go for this. It played out interestingly, too.
This was also interesting:
Because I actually wanted to do something else, but decided not to in the end:
This I originally wanted to do. But I figured it hurt my corner a lot, so I decided to go for a light reduction. (well, at least that's what I thought it'd be.
Whole game can be checked here
What I should learn from this:
Biggest mistake: too many (slow, small) gote moves, giving away the initiative. Many moves I wanted to play, were played by my opponent instead.
2 main causes:
- Bad time management. Had 1h + 5x30s, in the end I still had over 20 minutes. Not enough thinking (only using a lot of time on strategic choices, not enough on reading)
- low confidence in my own reading. Thus, extra defensive moves, way too slow.
It was a close game, and I really enjoyed it, there were some very interesting board positions.
For example, this one: (I was black)
In the end, I regretted it :p but I didn't want to double approach (don't really like those joseki, to be honest) so I decided to go for this. It played out interestingly, too.
This was also interesting:
Because I actually wanted to do something else, but decided not to in the end:
This I originally wanted to do. But I figured it hurt my corner a lot, so I decided to go for a light reduction. (well, at least that's what I thought it'd be.
Whole game can be checked here
What I should learn from this:
Biggest mistake: too many (slow, small) gote moves, giving away the initiative. Many moves I wanted to play, were played by my opponent instead.
2 main causes:
- Bad time management. Had 1h + 5x30s, in the end I still had over 20 minutes. Not enough thinking (only using a lot of time on strategic choices, not enough on reading)
- low confidence in my own reading. Thus, extra defensive moves, way too slow.
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jlt
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Re: Ian Butler's Playing Journal
What I noted when observing mid-dan or stronger players is thatHad 1h + 5x30s, in the end I still had over 20 minutes. Not enough thinking (only using a lot of time on strategic choices, not enough on reading.
- they spend a lot of time thinking at every stage of the game, including the early opening, even when I have the wrong impression that there is nothing to think about.
- they sometimes win fights without any fancy moves. The sequence flows naturally, and a group gets captured at move 10.
- When commenting other people's games, they easily come up with sequences that are 10+ moves long.
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Well, it's been over a year since I posted here. And with good reason, I didn't spend much time with Go on my mind the past year.
Now, I found myself in a place where things are hectic around me and inside my head, and I felt I could benefit a lot from the discipline I had when I used to study & play Go. So I found myself drawn back into this adventure.
The aim, however, seems to be the activity on itself.
Here are some of the things I've been doing:
- Replaying Pro Games: it soothes me. When I feel stressed, from work for example, replaying a pro game on a real goban really calmes me. When I do replay pro games, they are usually, if not always, Japanese games from a while back. Ishida, Shusaku, Takemiya... I really hope I can find a physical copy of the games of Shuei one day. I mostly use books that have commentary because I love reading insights into these games. I don't understand most of what's going on otherwise, obviously.
Also, I often use these Pro games to do some excercises. Like in the middle of the game, I could stop and then just practice counting. Or read out a particular cut. The pro's don't cut, so it must not work, but why doesn't it work? Try to figure that out.
- L&D: it helps bring discipline in my life. And it's a fun, engaging activity. It's puzzle after puzzle and I find myself really enjoying them. Sometimes I spend minutes on a puzzle, just trying to read out as many variations as I can, even when some moves are obvious fails, I like to see how well I can read them out.
- Watching Go content: For me, the lore and history of Go is perhaps even the most appealing aspect of the game. I'm a sucker for these things and in Go, I can get lost in all the stories and anecdotes. I've been reading and watching videos about Lee Sedol's retirement games, about his Go career, about Shusaku's life, about Cho Chikun's weird way of playing, his mumbling and creativity... I love learning about these things. I love to know that there are stories behind (brilliant) moves. That's also the reason that AI Go doesn't interest me one bit. Sure, they play Go at a higher level than ever, but I don't care about that. It's about the stories, the human element, the emotions. It's about how the Go board is an expression of these personalities, and not about the best possible play.
- Re-re-re-visiting Tesuji by James Davies. Now that I've gotten a lot of distance from my own Go playing, I realize what my biggest weakness was/is. It's tesuji and reading (ingame). I'm okay (well, relatively to my own skills of course) with big board thinking, strategy, endgame, opening. But I'm bad at tactics, at local fights, at tesuji.
I think Dwyrin's Back to Basics series was also a bad influence for that. OF course, it's a great Go series and I do recomment it, and still follow it, but you can take the wrong message from it. His saying you "don't need to read" to play strong is not black & white. It's just like I would say that to a beginner, but I can immediately see some things working and others not, while for that beginner it's important to figure it out. So, sure, dwyrin doesn't need to read to play a 1 dan easily and win, by simply his basic way of playing. But only because he subconsciously reads out a lot during playing.
Anyway, I haven't really gone back to playing games myself (except in class to teach the kids and with a friend who wants to learn), and I'm not sure yet how I'll do it. I really dislike online playing, but I won't have much choice. Maybe I'll go back to playing less but reviewing every game instead of trying to play a lot. Because my aim is not necessarily to gain in rank (I wouldn't mind, of course), but I do want to become a better player. (or, rather, I want to understand the game better)
Right now I dropped a few stones in rank after this year off. I'm probably 10 kyu on OGS. But honestly, I don't really care. If I do start playing again, I just want to find my own creative way of doing it again. I'd rather play free and remain 10 kyu forever, than get back to 6-7 kyu and get stuck again, feeling uninspired and scared to lose.
So we'll see. Anyway, good to be back at Go. I think you can never really leave it behind
PS. Probably the most important thing. No, I haven't watched Hikaru No Go again, but I probably will soon :p
Now, I found myself in a place where things are hectic around me and inside my head, and I felt I could benefit a lot from the discipline I had when I used to study & play Go. So I found myself drawn back into this adventure.
The aim, however, seems to be the activity on itself.
Here are some of the things I've been doing:
- Replaying Pro Games: it soothes me. When I feel stressed, from work for example, replaying a pro game on a real goban really calmes me. When I do replay pro games, they are usually, if not always, Japanese games from a while back. Ishida, Shusaku, Takemiya... I really hope I can find a physical copy of the games of Shuei one day. I mostly use books that have commentary because I love reading insights into these games. I don't understand most of what's going on otherwise, obviously.
Also, I often use these Pro games to do some excercises. Like in the middle of the game, I could stop and then just practice counting. Or read out a particular cut. The pro's don't cut, so it must not work, but why doesn't it work? Try to figure that out.
- L&D: it helps bring discipline in my life. And it's a fun, engaging activity. It's puzzle after puzzle and I find myself really enjoying them. Sometimes I spend minutes on a puzzle, just trying to read out as many variations as I can, even when some moves are obvious fails, I like to see how well I can read them out.
- Watching Go content: For me, the lore and history of Go is perhaps even the most appealing aspect of the game. I'm a sucker for these things and in Go, I can get lost in all the stories and anecdotes. I've been reading and watching videos about Lee Sedol's retirement games, about his Go career, about Shusaku's life, about Cho Chikun's weird way of playing, his mumbling and creativity... I love learning about these things. I love to know that there are stories behind (brilliant) moves. That's also the reason that AI Go doesn't interest me one bit. Sure, they play Go at a higher level than ever, but I don't care about that. It's about the stories, the human element, the emotions. It's about how the Go board is an expression of these personalities, and not about the best possible play.
- Re-re-re-visiting Tesuji by James Davies. Now that I've gotten a lot of distance from my own Go playing, I realize what my biggest weakness was/is. It's tesuji and reading (ingame). I'm okay (well, relatively to my own skills of course) with big board thinking, strategy, endgame, opening. But I'm bad at tactics, at local fights, at tesuji.
I think Dwyrin's Back to Basics series was also a bad influence for that. OF course, it's a great Go series and I do recomment it, and still follow it, but you can take the wrong message from it. His saying you "don't need to read" to play strong is not black & white. It's just like I would say that to a beginner, but I can immediately see some things working and others not, while for that beginner it's important to figure it out. So, sure, dwyrin doesn't need to read to play a 1 dan easily and win, by simply his basic way of playing. But only because he subconsciously reads out a lot during playing.
Anyway, I haven't really gone back to playing games myself (except in class to teach the kids and with a friend who wants to learn), and I'm not sure yet how I'll do it. I really dislike online playing, but I won't have much choice. Maybe I'll go back to playing less but reviewing every game instead of trying to play a lot. Because my aim is not necessarily to gain in rank (I wouldn't mind, of course), but I do want to become a better player. (or, rather, I want to understand the game better)
Right now I dropped a few stones in rank after this year off. I'm probably 10 kyu on OGS. But honestly, I don't really care. If I do start playing again, I just want to find my own creative way of doing it again. I'd rather play free and remain 10 kyu forever, than get back to 6-7 kyu and get stuck again, feeling uninspired and scared to lose.
So we'll see. Anyway, good to be back at Go. I think you can never really leave it behind
PS. Probably the most important thing. No, I haven't watched Hikaru No Go again, but I probably will soon :p
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John Fairbairn
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Games-Shuei-co ... 1711980242I really hope I can find a physical copy of the games of Shuei one day.
This appeared in the year you were away.
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Wow. I need to get my hands on that.John Fairbairn wrote:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Games-Shuei-co ... 1711980242I really hope I can find a physical copy of the games of Shuei one day.
This appeared in the year you were away.
By the way, for a westerner interested in Go history, you are a very appreciated author. Thank you for your contributions! I have many books of yours in my collection. Unfortunately I am missing Kamakura, of which I haven't been able to find a physical copy yet.
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Okay, so after getting back into Go, I decided to get some games under my belt. Because, why not?
This one game was a bit... odd.
It was both a failure and a success, I think.
So I was white against an opponent heavily favouring territory. MY aim this game was to actually use my reading in game. Because my reading skills are actually not that bad, but in a game, I never get to use them. The time pressures me, or I get too lazy or not concentrated enough. I wanted to use my reading skills ingame.
When black invades with
I think capping is a good choice. Maybe cosumi and hane could also have been good. Or simply approach the corner. With capping, I was thinking I'd build center influence and profit on the side at the same time. But it got cramped so I think the general strategy is dangerous.
Anyway, some good and bad things for myself from this game:
- I lose my ability to read when things grow complex. L&D problems are "easy", just one problem. On a board you can have so many variables playing that I stop reading entirely.
I did not read out the cut, I really couldn't.
+ Times when I did read, it helped a lot to get me to find the proper move and not chicken out. For example:
, or 
where I read out I couldn't let black play that point.
+ I feel I played relatively solidly without being too passive. I think I made some sharp moves.
for example, where my first instinct was to play L8 and make a defensive table shape.
- The game was spiraling out of my control and my opponent resigned. If we had kept playing, I feel I would've mismanaged the situation. And I don't know how to grow from here.
So, a success because at times I managed to read out things and it helped me. A failure because I didn't manage to focus enough to read out other things. A success because I tried making some sharp moves, and a failure because I got pushed around too easily in other places.
Not sure what to take away from this game, except this: don't resign too quickly.
This one game was a bit... odd.
It was both a failure and a success, I think.
So I was white against an opponent heavily favouring territory. MY aim this game was to actually use my reading in game. Because my reading skills are actually not that bad, but in a game, I never get to use them. The time pressures me, or I get too lazy or not concentrated enough. I wanted to use my reading skills ingame.
When black invades with
I think capping is a good choice. Maybe cosumi and hane could also have been good. Or simply approach the corner. With capping, I was thinking I'd build center influence and profit on the side at the same time. But it got cramped so I think the general strategy is dangerous. Anyway, some good and bad things for myself from this game:
- I lose my ability to read when things grow complex. L&D problems are "easy", just one problem. On a board you can have so many variables playing that I stop reading entirely.
I did not read out the cut, I really couldn't.+ Times when I did read, it helped a lot to get me to find the proper move and not chicken out. For example:
, or where I read out I couldn't let black play that point.+ I feel I played relatively solidly without being too passive. I think I made some sharp moves.
for example, where my first instinct was to play L8 and make a defensive table shape.- The game was spiraling out of my control and my opponent resigned. If we had kept playing, I feel I would've mismanaged the situation. And I don't know how to grow from here.
So, a success because at times I managed to read out things and it helped me. A failure because I didn't manage to focus enough to read out other things. A success because I tried making some sharp moves, and a failure because I got pushed around too easily in other places.
Not sure what to take away from this game, except this: don't resign too quickly.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
A few comments.
Main focus: Solid and strong.
Also: Keima for attack.
Also: Don't let the double keima get away.
Main focus: Solid and strong.
Also: Keima for attack.
Also: Don't let the double keima get away.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Knotwilg
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
I tend to agree. Dwyrin is a good player, a great entertainer and has probably given more depth to "the fundamentals of Go" than any other author. His "Back to basics" series is however misleading in more than one way. Like you say, it gives the impression that you don't have to read an awful lot to become strong, while what really happens in his case is that indeed a 6d doesn't have to read an awful lot to win games when sandbagging. Secondly, it can send the wrong message that you can keep improving without reading. Reading is associated to improvement at any level.I think Dwyrin's Back to Basics series was also a bad influence for that.
What also keeps bothering me is that dwyrin only publishes games he wins. The ones where he makes a blunder or loses in another fashion are swept under the carpet. This, with the entertainment value, reinforces the idea that you can banter your way into easy wins. It's setting unrealistic expectations and a recipe for frustration.
I recommend Baduk Doctor, a Korean 7d amateur who regularly beats pros online, whose technique is close to flawless and who has a series about reading, called "the road to dan level" or so. He's decisive on the whole "should you look at the solutions" debate: if tsumego are intended to train your reading, the solution actually doesn't matter. It's all about the reading itself. The problem setting is only there as a direction. Since then, I'm at peace when doing tsumego.
Cheers Ian!
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Thank you, Bill, as always!
knotwilg, exactly. I still watch for the entertainment value, but besides taking on a few essential "basics", the series doesn't really help you improve much.
It's funny, I've just discovered Doctor Baduk, I like him. I've also been watching some GoProYeonwoo. But I don't think watching video's helps you get better at Go. It's just fun. It's like I don't think replaying all those pro games really helps me grow stronger at playing Go, but it's so much fun to do and it does help understanding Go a bit better, at least.
Like you said, L&D is all about the reading itself. I don't mind getting the right or wrong answer (I do mind if I'm working on tsumego way above my level), I just find it nice to try and read out as many variations as I can, as deep as I can. In the 1001 L&D book by Richard Bozulich, that means I've gone 132 problems in a week and got like 10 wrong at the max, maybe even less.
But I find that there is a huuuuge difference between reading in tsumego and reading ingame.
Anyway, I do hope to become a better player, because there's so much I can't see or read out now that I'd love to be able to. But psychology can be a pain sometimes. For some reason I have serious doubts in my head; for some reason I feel I won't get any better anymore. Don't know why it's there, maybe because I used to be obsessed with Go and now I do it more casually I don't believe it'll improve me any further or something. I guess we'll see. For now, though, I'll keep enjoying tsumego, playing games, replaying Pro games and watching some video's.
joseki
One thing I'm definitely NOT interested in is learning all kinds of joseki. But on the other hand, maybe that's a decent way to study as well? I don't feel learning joseki by rote makes you any better at the game (it might increase your rank, but won't make you better at understanding Go), but perhaps there is another way?
knotwilg, exactly. I still watch for the entertainment value, but besides taking on a few essential "basics", the series doesn't really help you improve much.
It's funny, I've just discovered Doctor Baduk, I like him. I've also been watching some GoProYeonwoo. But I don't think watching video's helps you get better at Go. It's just fun. It's like I don't think replaying all those pro games really helps me grow stronger at playing Go, but it's so much fun to do and it does help understanding Go a bit better, at least.
Like you said, L&D is all about the reading itself. I don't mind getting the right or wrong answer (I do mind if I'm working on tsumego way above my level), I just find it nice to try and read out as many variations as I can, as deep as I can. In the 1001 L&D book by Richard Bozulich, that means I've gone 132 problems in a week and got like 10 wrong at the max, maybe even less.
But I find that there is a huuuuge difference between reading in tsumego and reading ingame.
Anyway, I do hope to become a better player, because there's so much I can't see or read out now that I'd love to be able to. But psychology can be a pain sometimes. For some reason I have serious doubts in my head; for some reason I feel I won't get any better anymore. Don't know why it's there, maybe because I used to be obsessed with Go and now I do it more casually I don't believe it'll improve me any further or something. I guess we'll see. For now, though, I'll keep enjoying tsumego, playing games, replaying Pro games and watching some video's.
joseki
One thing I'm definitely NOT interested in is learning all kinds of joseki. But on the other hand, maybe that's a decent way to study as well? I don't feel learning joseki by rote makes you any better at the game (it might increase your rank, but won't make you better at understanding Go), but perhaps there is another way?
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jlt
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Differences between reading tsumegos and reading during a game:
- In life-and-death problems, the group under attack usually can't escape, and outside stones are considered as alive. This is not always the case in a game.
- In a game, it may be better to sacrifice a group than to live while giving the opponent too much profit.
- In a game, the goal is usually not to live or to kill but to get a good position, so it is necessary to ave a good positional judgment as well.
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
True. I'll also add this:jlt wrote:Differences between reading tsumegos and reading during a game:
- In life-and-death problems, the group under attack usually can't escape, and outside stones are considered as alive. This is not always the case in a game.
- In a game, it may be better to sacrifice a group than to live while giving the opponent too much profit.
- In a game, the goal is usually not to live or to kill but to get a good position, so it is necessary to ave a good positional judgment as well.
- in tsumego, you know there's an answer. You can keep looking for it. In game, there might not be one. Also often (like you said, no escape in tsumego) the variations are wider and it feels like you don't know where to begin sometimes. (sometimes it's like: does this cut work? and the possibilities seem endless,so you just go with the cut without knowing. Obviously a "simple" ladder or net can be read, but often it will be tougher than this.)
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Ian Butler
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
Tesuji (James Davies)
Just a small note on my progress in Tesuji. The first few chapters were good, I solved almost all problems correctly, my reading was good. The last two chapters I did, however, were a lot worse. 'When liberties count' en especially 'linking up groups'. In that last one, I missed more than half the problems at the end of the chapter and this, too, reflects in my games. Given the situations in the book, I'll never find these answers in a game. So it really shows a big lack of understanding/knowledge about tesuji on my part. For some reason tesuji is a very hard subject for me to learn. The reading is not necessarily the problem (i make mistakes but not the main issue), but finding the actual tesujis and seeing how they work out. This goes together with the "uninspired" feeling I talked about before. Often I'll settle with an obvious move, missing out on very sharp and strong moves, and throwing away stones that could be linked up.
Not sure how to improve in that, except study the Tesuji book hard
Just a small note on my progress in Tesuji. The first few chapters were good, I solved almost all problems correctly, my reading was good. The last two chapters I did, however, were a lot worse. 'When liberties count' en especially 'linking up groups'. In that last one, I missed more than half the problems at the end of the chapter and this, too, reflects in my games. Given the situations in the book, I'll never find these answers in a game. So it really shows a big lack of understanding/knowledge about tesuji on my part. For some reason tesuji is a very hard subject for me to learn. The reading is not necessarily the problem (i make mistakes but not the main issue), but finding the actual tesujis and seeing how they work out. This goes together with the "uninspired" feeling I talked about before. Often I'll settle with an obvious move, missing out on very sharp and strong moves, and throwing away stones that could be linked up.
Not sure how to improve in that, except study the Tesuji book hard
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jlt
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Re: Ian Butler's Go Journal
I've gone through the following books at least twice: Tesuji (Davies), Get strong at Tesuji (Bozulich) and graded go problems for Dan players vol. 2. Each new attempt is a slight improvement over the previous one. I still get bad shapes in my games.