Page 16 of 17

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:41 pm
by EdLee
So, :b89: was kind of expected. And this was the position I was looking at before :w88:.
The two :wc: stones are not cutting stones -- the :bs: group is now alive --
and later there are still moves like (b). (a) is my sente, but I wonder if it can wait.
Also looking at aji in (c) area, as :w88: settled that corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . W X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 # O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . # . . # . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 # . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
(p)
B was ahead after :b89:.
W's most severe move was probably :w1: -- it's kind of a big gamble for both W and B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:25 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm90
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . 1 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:28 pm
by EdLee
:w1: may not be sente now. For example -- the center becomes a monster (again):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . 4 . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:18 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 First Impressions.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X d O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . a O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . W . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . f . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . e . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . c . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . b . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:41 am
by EdLee
Loons, I'll be offline until the end of this week (Sunday Aug 21 here),
so you'll have had over 9 days for :b91: -- I look forward to it. :)

Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:38 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I think I mentioned I count myself losing by >10 at the moment. I'm going fishing for what points I can build in the centre. I think Ed probably should play M11 or M12 (to avoid my H12 stone), after which I am beginning to seal off a big centre area. Not 100% on my play lower left yet.

My right side groups are so overconcentrated that they ought to resist Ed's yose on their own).

Will try to make more timely moves in future.

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:31 pm
by EdLee
No first feeling, yet. :)

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:07 am
by EdLee
I have to assume Loons spent the 15 days reading very deeply many variations here :),
including the obvious two hanes :white:(a) and :white:(b). Will take my time here... :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a X b . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:41 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O 2 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . a c . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . W . b d . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . B . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Not a sequence of moves, a sequence of thoughts. I ended up at 'd' because 'a' 'b' and 'c' all leave a walk-through-able gap with respect to my marked black stone. My group on the left seems thicker than my group on the bottom, so white leaning on it should be less trouble.
So, moves by Ed I'm anticipating:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . C . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . T 1 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . f . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . d e . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . b c . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
'a' seems sente against the triangled cut; I have the circled peep to use but may need to just block in gote anyway (which will be locally quite nice at least)

'd' and 'e' seem like good choices because they're where I want to play. Against them, I think I just fall back.

'b' and 'c' shoulder hits against my third line two space extension are normal tactics (though I think normally earlier in the game), and perhaps the most likely. I will look at sacrificing F3 if Ed plays this way.

'f' I do not expect (famous last words). While black neglected to net those two stones, running with them is heavy; resulting in a gross loss if it does not 'work' stellarly somehow. It is better to aim at this adji with one of the other moves.

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:01 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm92
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:14 pm
by EdLee
Unfortunately, after a few days of pondering, I still don't know what to do with :b91: (= :bc:). :)
:bc: looks a bit odd, to me, and it doesn't seem sente. :w92: is not small, but I'm also not sure it's sente, either.
However, if B gets :b1: first, even though it ends in gote locally, afterwards :black:(a) atari becomes sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$B
$$-------------------------+
$$ . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . |
$$ O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ . . . O . a O X X X . . |
$$ X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . B . . . X . . . . |
$$ . . , . . . . . X . X X |[/go]

Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:15 am
by Loons
This is sente against my 10-15 points in the corner. How much bigger than that is any of the moves in the centre? Perhaps Ed is right that the centre is so open he has many options in reducing and I can't take away all of them... But it also seems to be so open there are a lot of points to grab. Ehh, I'm playing the move I wanted before. I feel my move strengthens my weakest stones, as well so I feel it's irresistible.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:33 am
by EdLee
First feeling is :white:(a) hane.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm92
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . 2 . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
(p)
:b93: was not good shape. Later (many variations here):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 2 . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X 3 . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Replying to :w92: was big and B should've done it. Locally, the correct shape is the 1-space jump:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:43 am
by EdLee
Another candidate for :w92: was :w1:, but I was uncertain of the status of the :bc: group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a X b . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . W X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B B O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . B . . B . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Also, I was not sure whether pulling :wc: out with :w1: was a good idea, because it may end up as a heavy group.
In post-game review, I'd be curious to know Loons' plan for :w92: at (a) and (b).

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:27 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm94
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]