Working through the kyus! (Easier said than done)

[skydyr]

At move 27, as white, I really want to probe the top right corner and then start trashing things. The bottom right group should be fine enough because of q4 and r3, which white can take at any time... the whole point of the two space jump is that it's nice and light and flexible, after all. Taking the corner as white did isn't small, per se, but black certainly wouldn't take it next. A one space jump by white into black's moyo as a reduction may also be a good dual-purpose move.

Honestly, though I don't really like white's joseki choice in the lower right. Playing the two space jump looks to attack the pincer stone, but it's far AND black has a solid corner to back it up, so it's not a good fight for white. Maybe taisha or some other counter-pincer would be better?

[EdLee]

• It worked beautifully.
• But then white makes this mistake and now I feel the game became mine to lose.
  In some circumstances the order of the push up or the push sideways doesn't matter. In this case, however, it really does.
• Because I can fall back.
• My box is amazing
• And I made it in sente

( I added bullet format and some emphases. )

Are these comments from a high level player or your own feelings ?

[Abyssinica]

Maybe is actually gote and white took the chance to defend his 3-3.

[Sennahoj]

congrats on the win, but I wonder how many times in total you describe yourself as "bold" in the comments

[Uberdude]

Well white helped you make your box more amazing than it deserved with the k18 aji-keshi (he could have clamped, or at least if you play k18 as a yose move push one more and then use the sente aftewards to reduce the moyo). Also I would probably play q10 instead of d18 as white and this really hurts your moyo; for this reason I think L5 could be a mistake and a better direction would be around o8 (after all if white pushes at L5 he's pushing you from behind on the 4th line so you don't mind, though if he can turn his weak group into thickness for the left side moyo Takemiya-style maybe it's not too bad). But well done for getting the o10 direction right (but white answered it poorly). And o4 gote and missing e4 are weak, this is AGA 2k I suppose?

[moyoaji]

I would like to start by apologizing for not making my previous post more clear. The review I gave was not meant to be totally serious and completely definitive. You may note that it showed only one variation, and that was only so I could explain what I meant. While I generally agree with the comments I made, I intentionally chose grandiose words. I wanted it to reflect an emotional state following my victory. I felt that my strategy was interesting and that it effectively countered my opponent. I'm not claiming that I did anything profound, only that it worked against this one player this one time. (This is surprising! I wouldn't expect anyone to take anything you say seriously. )

@skydyr - Post game, my opponent and I both felt that a corner probe was a good idea. We didn't agree on when it should happen - I would agree with you that it should come soon, at least as a lone probe to test for aji. Perhaps if I hane on the outside then he can play a jump from his group into the framework because I'm defending that area instead of the corner.

Like I said, my opponent's weakest point is joseki and fuseki. He has admitted that to our club, going so far as to say that he just doesn't study joseki. That was why I changed the way I played - so I could meet him head-on in a not-so-common 3-4 joseki that I know better than him. (So moyo's "brilliant" strategy should never work against anyone else. )

@EdLee - I have said before that I have no higher level player to go to for analysis outside of these forums. This 2 kyu opponent is the only person I know in West Michigan that is stronger than I am, and it's only by a bit. A big part of the reason why I post here is so I can get analysis from stronger players. (moyo's basically a mooch on your community. )

I could attempt to make the trip down to Kalamazoo at some point in the hopes of meeting a stronger player there, but that is over an hour drive for me. However, I just looked at their website and they moved to Wednesdays, which should work better for me because I usually have Thursday evening plans.

These comments are from myself and from my post-game discussion with my opponent. They are a bit over-the-top, but that's intentional. I wanted to have my review also display how exciting a win here was since I've never beaten this opponent before. It was not meant to be very serious. However, you apparently took it seriously so I'll address your comments seriously.

I do think my strategy was effective, because I won for the first time against this opponent. Whether it was "beautiful" is purely subjective. (It isn't beautiful...) My opponent and I both agreed post-game that was a mistake in this board position and that worked well - even if it does lead to a local loss - because after my framework is really good. being gote or sente I suppose is up for debate. I took it that the move a direct result of my approach to the corner, which started the rest of the sequence. I was not saying that I deserve sente from that - on the contrary, that's why I had an ellipse after that statement. I really think my opponent should have played tenuki from there - but he didn't, so I did get this in sente.

@Abyssinica - This is an interesting question. I considered the defense of the 3-3 to be finishing after my initial approach to the corner. Everything that followed from I took as some sort of pseudo-joseki sequence. I think you can make an argument for your interpretation as well. All things considered, gote and sente are somewhat subjective.

@Sennahoj - I counted three times. Again, I was trying to be over-the-top, so I probably could have gotten away with more. This review was not supposed to be anything definitive.

@Uberdude - Wow, these are some great thoughts. Thank you very much. (See Uberdude, you're one of the strong players he's mooching on for advice. )

Q10 would be a fantastic move for white and you are right that it would make L5 look like a huge mistake. I did deviate from my plan to get a wall in sente, so I guess that could be an effective punishment. The idea of playing O8 instead of L5 is interesting. I really like the look of it - to the point that I think I would play it now instead of going for my wall plan.

Missing E4 is a direct result of my opponent not studying joseki and things like that are why I study joseki regularly. I will note that in "The Chinese Opening" Kato Masao feels making the E4-E3 exchange in fuseki leads to inefficient shape for the initial F5 stone. That said, this isn't the opening. I would have played E4 - and did play it as black - on the principle that it is double sente. As for the O4 gote, I think it was a misread. In the game I stopped to read here and made sure that taking my 2 stones didn't expose some horrible threats against my corner. Perhaps he believed it did.

Yes, my opponent is an AGA 2 kyu, but he's not always on his game. He hasn't attended the last couple of weeks and says he only plays at the club meetings. I was his first opponent of the night, so he was probably a bit rusty. Afterwards he managed to easily beat another player in a 5 stone handicap game - a player who gives me trouble at 5 stones. Nate is better than me, but this was not his best game. (You got a win you didn't deserve, of course it was a bad game for your opponent. )

[Bill Spight]

Congratulations on your win. You made a plan based upon assessing the position and carried it out.

I thought I would just make one comment, to praise L-05. It is bigger than it looks and is a play that a lot of players would overlook.

But I see that Uberdude has, err, beaten me to it, in a way.

BTW, I agree with Uberdude about the White clamp on the top side.

[moyoaji]

I just had a crushing defeat against an unranked opponent. (Oh, good. One of these games! )

I wanted the game to be a learning experience, so I went into the game with a rule that I wasn't allowed to play anything standard and I had to trust my reading. Basically, I was to play no 3-4/4-4 opening stones and I couldn't play anything joseki/fuseki wise that I was too comfortable with. I typically go for building my own frameworks and giving up what I can afford to, so I had to approach and pincer and play as crazy as I could for the purposes of learning. (What is this nonsense? )

Admittedly, I lapsed a bit after my double approach on the right, playing a 5-4 joseki I know well that built the right, but I got back into playing non-standard after that. (Good, I'm glad you stopped yourself before you did something good... )

In the end, all it came down to was the my opponent outread me everywhere. I should have been less greedy of course, I went for a kill, but I did it because I couldn't read a way for my opponent to survive. Apparently I read very poorly.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4707

Any advice would be appreciated, but apart from tactical errors I don't really see what I did wrong. (So much for a learning game. )

[moyoaji]

So I haven't been doing much with go recently; I've not been a very faithful student of the game at all. (You got any excuses for us, or just being lazy?)

Here is the first online game I've played in a while. It was an IGS game. I did quite well because, again, I don't think I should be ranked 8k. (I think the rating system should be the judge of that. )

I don't like going for influence, but most IGS players I've faced tend to prefer territory and I strive to let my opponent have whatever they want given that I get something as good or better in return. In this game, from my first move it should be clear I wanted to play a territorial style, but I decided to challenge my opponent's ability to make a large framework after his 5-4 stone. The rest of the game involved me getting more and more influence until I managed to command the center and, at one point, kill one of his groups.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4778

I don't have much to say about this game. It seemed straight-forward to me. My opponent needed to challenge me for the center or else lose and he did not challenge my center, so he lost.

[moyoaji]

(Wow, were finally back. )

So I haven't been on this forum much and I haven't been studying go much, but I wanted to post an update since it's almost been two weeks. I've been pretty busy and, honestly, go hasn't been a big priority in my life. (I see... ) That said, I'm making some progress and I have some games to post.

These are two club games I played. One is against a player who is around 7-8 kyu giving him four stones earlier this month and another was against our club's 2 kyu player where I had a 1 stone handicap. I lost the first, but won the second.

Note that the second game was recorded from my and my opponent's memory. The general order is correct, and the final board position is correct, but a few endgame sequences may have been different.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4860

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4861

So I have now beaten our club's 2 kyu player twice using opposite styles when being given a one stone handicap. Hopefully, I can win again tomorrow if we both make it to the meeting. Now I want to go back to my normal balanced style to see if I can win with that. (No way. You'll have another loss. But don't worry! That way you can improve more. )

[moyoaji]

Hello all. (Hello. )

It has been quite a while since I've posted regularly to these forums, but I would like to get back to frequenting here. I have lurked on occasion, but haven't been prompted to post anything. Life has been busy, but I do value the community here and would like to return. (Oh, that's nice. We missed you too! )

Things at the West Michigan Go Club have been going okay. We are all slowly improving, but our 2k player hasn't come back in a while.

I haven't been keeping up with playing online - I am now unranked on KGS - and I haven't been reading go books that often. (Glad to see you haven't changed! )

I have been keeping up on my tsumego. After purchasing a smart phone a few months ago, I got a go problem app and do the daily problems every day. It seems to have improved my reading more than I thought it would.

Still I seek to become 1 dan. For a brief moment I was provisional 2d on KGS, but I really don't feel I earned it. If I'm going to reach the dan ranks, I'm not going to accept flukes. I want to know that I have reached that level. (Because a rank really defines your playing ability... We've had this discussion plenty of times. Just play go! )

I hope you all have been well, and I look forward to posting with you in the near future.

[moyoaji]

Tonight was club night and we had a decent attendance of 5. The problem with that number is that it is odd. So we decided to do a variant of pair-go with two of the players cooperating as if they were one player.

The set-up was like this:

Team 1 ------|------ Team 2
Nick (~8k) - vs. - Myself (~3k)
Jon (~7k) - vs. - Mike (~17k) and Tanner (~19k)

(Go Team 1! )

The winner was the team with the best combined score after both games. (Huh... well that's one way to do it... )

Sadly, one of the players on the team was not very in to the game, and so made many questionable moves not quite up to his level. This, combined with him heading out early, and so leaving the other without someone to collaborate with, resulted in a 154 point win for Team 1 on the second board. ( )

This meant I needed to win by more than 154 points on my board against an opponent I usually play at 5 stones. I was unsuccessful. (No kidding. )

I did pull off a win, but it was only 83 points. Barely over half of what I needed. (You think you deserved more points? )

While it was a loss for my team, it did make me wonder about my performance in handicap games. Perhaps I could do better against other players in the future? Maybe I'm not pushing myself enough. I prefer to play a calmer type of handicap game, but that was not possible in this instance. I saw how far behind our team was on the other board, so I asked for more and more and more points. I didn't get everything I asked for, but I got more than I would have otherwise. (Greedy, over-aggressive play? Isn't that how you said you lost a bunch of the games in this journal? )

We will see what I decide to do next week.

I also hope to play more go online now that the holidays have arrived - including regaining my rank on the KGS. (About time...)

---

Here is a club game against this player from last month that I lost. I've looked it over a couple of times and have included my thoughts, but comments are always appreciated. (He kinda needs them, if he's the only one that reviews his losses then how will he ever come up with better moves? )

http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=5412

[PeterN]

This was a 5 stone and 154 point reverse komi handicap game, I'm not sure there's really anything you could learn about your performace given that the handicap is so large you need to be not just greedy but also taking stones from your opponent's bowl as prisoners!

PeterN

[moyoaji]

This was a 5 stone and 154 point reverse komi handicap game, I'm not sure there's really anything you could learn about your performace given that the handicap is so large you need to be not just greedy but also taking stones from your opponent's bowl as prisoners!

PeterN

True. I don't feel there was anything I could have done. Although to be fair, both games were technically even games. There were no handicap stones given to either side. I think I worded my explanation poorly. That said, a 154 point reverse komi is still ludicrous given the skill difference between my opponent and I.

The game I posted is from last month. I don't have the record from yesterdays game, although my opponent will usually send me the game record within a few days. I was just hoping to get some comments on that other game if anyone had any. I haven't been on the forums in a while. (A bit rusty, are we? Not good at explaining things and you're posting outdated games. )

[moyoaji]

Does anyone here have any advice on how to maintain composure in handicap games?

---

At last night's go club meeting, I lost both of the games I played. (So it was a normal Tuesday for you, then. )

Both of the games were 4 stone handicap games where I took white. One was against a player I usually play at 4 stones. The other was against a player I usually play at 5. And in both I ended up making overplays that cost me the game. (Just like every game you play... why are you posting this again? )

I used to play the handicap games calmly. My opponents would make small moves, responses in gote, large joseki mistakes, or some type of blunder that I would exploit to take the lead. Now that I have played these opponents enough, they have begun to learn from me. They make larger moves, take sente, have fewer joseki mistakes, and their blunders are much less significant.

In both of the games, my opponents did make mistakes in joseki, but I grew impatient. In both I might have won if I'd simply stayed strong and waited for more mistakes. Yet mid game started to wind down in each and I still wasn't winning. I've become used to winning these handicap games through big kills, large scale attacks, or fights. (So much for moyoaji being a "slow-and-steady wins the race" kind of player. I like this "kill or be killed" mentality. )

The difference last night, compared to other nights, is that I lost the fights in both games. One because I tried to kill a group before properly sealing it in. The other because I failed to recognize a long netting/loose ladder sequence that my opponent patiently read out step by step. Instead of letting me win, each of my opponents took the time to find a path to victory that I was too hasty to read out.

I must learn from this night. I must remember these games. This must be a turning point in my go playing. I must not rely on my opponent to make mistakes. I must always play my best. I must always take the safe path to sure victory over the risky route to either grand win or crushing defeat. (How many times can you say "must" in one paragraph? )

Honestly, I never thought these opponents would work me down to these handicaps. One used to play me at 6. The other reached a handicap of 8 for a time. I am proud of their progress, but I feel that I am not keeping up my end of the deal. I need to continue to improve. This my much needed wake-up call.

The fire has been lit. Let's see how brightly I can make it burn.