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110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3540

Page 17 of 23

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:18 am
by EdLee
:w30: does not look big enough, but Marcus may even choose to reply, if he thinks he has enough threats of his own.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:00 am
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not big enough ... what's Kirby's next move? I suspect K9, actually ... which provides a second exit for Kirby's middle group ... I would be disappointed if Kirby simply atari'd my lone stone ... that's way too small, I think ...

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:57 am
by Magicwand
for obs only:
white was ahead by too many points so that ko threat might be enough to win :scratch:

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:10 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:23 am
by Magicwand
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

can you explain how black and white have equal territory?

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:47 am
by Kirby
It's annoying losing a group like that, but maybe I can make this a close game, still. I think I was ahead by a lot before losing this group on the right, so I might be able to narrow the gap, even though I was captured... Maybe.

I can't afford any more mistakes, though.

I could play something like this, and I don't think I'd have a problem living:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, if black responds locally, it makes it a bit harder to attack the marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . O . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . B . B . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . B . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I will have to think about this a bit, and try to maintain a positive attitude.

...

I remember a game I played awhile ago - I think it was my second go tournament. I was playing as a 5k, and playing against someone that entered as 4k. I was surprised at how strong they seemed, and I was pretty certain that they were winning near the end of the game. Then a move came to me where I took a risk and put my stones in danger - but I was able to live and win the game.

I don't know if the same thing will happen here, but I cannot afford to make any mistakes. I've already paid a lot for my last set of mistakes. I need to push forward, and catch black's weakness.

It's harder to grab the flow when it gets later in the game... But I don't think that it's impossible. I think there's still time for me on this board.

I have to play not based on my feelings, but based on reading. I need to not just talk, but also have action. I need to find the flow.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm
by Marcus
All these hidden comments ... they're making me a bit nervous ... did I miss anything?

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm
by Magicwand
for obs only:
below is what i would play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X 3 . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X 2 . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 4 X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm
by yithril
I think it's resign time.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:42 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Magicwand wrote:...
can you explain how black and white have equal territory?

Both of my original estimates were about 5 too high:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X W , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X C |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . C C C C X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X W C X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W C W X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W W X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X W C W X |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . X X C W W W W W C |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . C C C C C X X C |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . C C C X C C C C |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . C X X C C O C C |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . W X . X X X C C |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black = 65

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | C C C C C C . . . . . . . . C C C C C |
$$ | C C C C O O . . . . . . . . C C C O O |
$$ | C C C . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | C C B O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | C O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | C C B O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | C C C C C O O X . . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | C C C O C C C O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | C C C C C B O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | C C C O C C C . . . . . . . C C O O . |
$$ | C C C C C C C . . . . . C C C C C C C |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White bottom right 9 + bottom left 31 + upper left 22 + upper right 8 = 70.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:43 pm
by Shaddy
Joaz:

I would count black's top as solid territory. There's about 10 points there

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:38 am
by Kirby
I haven't forgotten about this game; I want to play a little bit more on my game against Chew before continuing here, though. That's because the blunder I made will need my full attention to diagnose... ;-)

I think Marcus deserves that. Besides, the game will be more interesting that way.

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:39 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X 2 . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here goes nothing... I need to focus here...

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:03 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here goes nothing ...

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm
by jts
They're so funny :D
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 17 of 23

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