Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:20 pm

[nohide] Even without reading his hidden comments, I love younger brother's fighting spirit.

[/nohide]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 am

Go is about fighting. If I wanted a peaceful game, we'd be playing Candyland or something.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:27 am

Sorry I'm a little unclear. Was that an approval of the move or just the spirit in which it was played?

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:24 pm

Splatted wrote:Sorry I'm a little unclear. Was that an approval of the move or just the spirit in which it was played?

That was an approval of the spirit.

Approving the move may take a while, especially since I'm rather busy for the next few days.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:48 am

I approve.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:14 pm

Joaz Banbeck wrote:{hide tags removed}
Splatted wrote:Just so you all know, I'm starting uni on monday (and moving there on saturday) so my move rate might be slow for a while. I'm sure I'll be able to make time for it but things will be a little hectic at first.
Hehehe...it is time to make a really complicated position.

Six days have passed. Did I make it too complicated?

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:11 am

lol sorry. I'll post my move later today.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:26 pm

There has been a lot of chatter, so I'm reposting the current position for the benefit of observers.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:43 pm

First thing to check, does the ladder work? Unfortunately not, so what else can I do. My perspective is that this situation hinges on the safety of my two cutting stones at C10, so I need to look at how I can protect them, and I see two options.

The first is to play the atari cut at E11 again, and the second is to take white's last stone. Capturing white's stone looks like it might lead to a tombstone tesuji and then all white has to do is move out with his two stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | O O X X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So we're back to considering E11. I'm not going to worry too much about the fact that Tim corrected it before, because I feel like my earlier play suffered a lot from trying to read the BBs minds instead of focusing on what has happened on the board. I will re-examine this move thoroughly, especially given that we've made an exchange that clearly affects it, but in the end I'm going to play the move that I think's best and let Tim correct me if need be. For all I know his correction was supposed to be a probe to set up E11.

I'll post more later.

Edit: corrected diagram

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:45 am

Still thinking?

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:25 pm

I'm really sorry about the wait. I decided I needed to get up earlier so I could get a couple of hours of bass practice done before classes, but changing my sleep cycle resulted in temporary zombification.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, E11:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . 5 1 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X 2 . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Clearly my old plan doesn't work anymore (Did it ever?), so I need to rethink things. What are my options here? As I see it, there are two ways in which I could try and play this: Be aggressive and try and kill black's C9 stones, or peacefully sacrifice my stones. Since I can't capture black's stones directly I need to start by defending my stones if I want to fight, but I've already looked at the only two options for that and didn't like either so I need to find a good way to sacrifice. Even though I think this area is important I will tenuki if I can't find a sequence I like, because I have resolved to stop playing moves I dislike.

There does seem to be a nice way to sacrifice simply by forcing black to capture my B9 stone (and defend his E10 stone).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X a . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . 8 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | 6 C X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 1 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is like my earlier plan (I'll repost it below for convenience), except better so I really should like it, but I just can't see it as an acceptable result. I said before that I was happy to settle my group in way that threatened to cut at "a", but now I think that's not good enough when black has sente. What happens if black just defends the cut? I've settled my group and gained some thickness, but what am I supposed to do with it? All black's stones are strong and after the the territory he gained he has no need to take any risks. It seems foolish to deliberately create a game where I'm behind on territory and my opponent is the one with the solid positions from which to expand, so this is definitely out.

So once again I need to come up with another idea, but what? Well I've identified a serious problem: All black really needs to do to win is settle his groups, so I need to stop him doing that. With that goal in mind, playing B11 and trying to fight it out with the C9 stones becomes more tempting, but the strong black stones on the bottom mean it's still pretty unappealing. The other option is of course the previously mentioned cut at "a", and this seems much more viable. I'm not exactly strong in the area, but at least black isn't either. It may end in disaster, but using the fight to settle my weak groups also seems like a possibility, and that would definitely make this game easier.

Edit:

Now I'm thinking I should have played kikashi at f10 first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 :b18: :w15: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:51 pm

I'm going to be out of town next week, so I may or may not end up posting.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:35 pm

For observers:

I'm suffering whiplash again. That is a huge tenuki. He says that the top is more important than the left side.

I don't think that Tim82 can let this stand. Even if he agrees with younger brother's belief about priorities, he still has to move the stone over one space.

It is too easy for us to to respond like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . a . . b . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . 1 X 2 W . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X W . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Now black is threatening 'a' to connect, and 'b' to undermine the marked white stones.

The proper way to isolate black is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X 1 . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I think that it is three stones better. So if Tim decides that he agrees with the general idea of the tenuki, he will play F17. ( And he will give us three stones.

)

But...once he decides that he will have to give us three stones, he will probably decide to go back to the left. Either way...

I think that we have three stones coming our way.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:47 am

Sorry, disapproved

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm48 :b18: :w18: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . 3 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:52 am

Splatted wrote:I guess we'll never know...

I really want to read that hide tag. I can't say I'm surprised there's something I overlooked, but this is different from all the other corrections in that I thought this was the "correct" move.

to Splatted:

Life In 19x19

Big Brother Malkovich #5

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