Life In 19x19

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:20 am**

illluck wrote:I have to disagree with oren. There's really no need to reinvent the wheel and remember inferior sequences- at least look up the most common situations (e.g. sansna invasion into just the 4-4, into 4-4 with keima, into 4-4 with ogeima). A lot of the shapes and sequences in those situations are also applicable in other places.

Certainly, if you feel flummoxed after a game by a certain corner exchange, your first instinct should be to ask a stronger player to review it with you and your second instinct should be to consult a joseki dictionary to get some ideas.

But "learning joseki", if that means "memorizing joseki", isn't horribly productive if your sense of life and death, shape, endgame, reading, etc. isn't strong enough to understand why you're playing the moves you memorized. If your opponent deviates, you're helpless. If the situation on the board is slightly different, you're helpless. Later in the game when you want to press your advantage or defend locally, you're helpless.

In other words, so long as his opponents can't kill that invasion, he should focus on continuing to improve his L&D. Once they are killing it consistently, then he could learn the ko sequence by heart, but he could also keep studying L&D - at a certain point, you don't have to "memorize" that sequence, it just makes so much sense that seeing it once is good.

Posted: **Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:35 pm**

bakekoq wrote:
jts wrote:Actually, w can hane under at the 4-2 point to get a ko, iirc.

hello, jts. can u show us the details diagram? I still don't get it. thanks before

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 3*3 with a Keima $$ ------------------ $$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . $$ | . 7 . 5 6 . . . . $$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . $$ | . . 3 X . . . . . $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:48 am**

My time in turn based land has left my real time skills very rusty. Today I lost one game horribly (I won't post it as I already had a review from tchan) but in both I failed to kill an invasion into my moyo. In this game what I'm curious about is whether my strategy to kill the invader instead of containing them and allowing them to live small on the bottom was incorrect. I think it was, but I'm very, very new to moyo based play as an explicit plan.

A true mess of a game.

Looking for thoughts on general strategy here rather than anything else. All comments welcome.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:40 am**

Actually a more serious question:

Despite winning this I gave my opponent an awfully big territory on top. I'd like to know what I failed to do to seriously disrupt it. I think I'm being too timid about invading/reducing when moyo building myself but would welcome thoughts on this. No need for a fully review, just some ideas would be of great help.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:32 am**

If your opponent makes a big territory and you make a territory that's 13 pts bigger elsewhere, you didn't fail.

The most obvious place to reduce W's top is going to be before he finishes sketching it out. N17 at :b56:

, for example; W's high stone at K16 is begging to be finished off with a low stone at O17 (which is already a big approach, isn't it?), so this is a big move for either player. Because W is so high, even after he plays O17 you can try strong-arm tactics like the H17 invasion; but of course, this will just transfer W's strength from the top side to the center.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:38 am**

jts wrote:If your opponent makes a big territory and you make a territory that's 13 pts bigger elsewhere, you didn't fail.

If I could count accurately to within 10 you'd be right but I can only do rough guesstimation at the moment. I thought I was ahead but didn't think it was much.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:10 am**

F14 should be H17. You can live in there, it's wide open. If you die, you learned something, and if you don't, you win big.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:40 am**

Shaddy wrote:F14 should be H17. You can live in there, it's wide open. If you die, you learned something, and if you don't, you win big.

I disagree. The game was over at move 45, where W should have resigned. The primary concern now for B should be to preserve the win as safely as possible. For that purpose, F14 is excellent, while an invasion is risky. There is no bonus in Go for winning big.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:55 am**

mitsun wrote:
Shaddy wrote:F14 should be H17. You can live in there, it's wide open. If you die, you learned something, and if you don't, you win big.
I disagree. The game was over at move 45, where W should have resigned. The primary concern now for B should be to preserve the win as safely as possible. For that purpose, F14 is excellent, while an invasion is risky. There is no bonus in Go for winning big.

This is pretty much how I think, I'm trying to work out if I'm wrong as I've bad tendency personally to get too timid and this shows through in my games. I see from the disagreement that this isn't as cut and dry as I thought.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:05 am**

A few comments on the Trojan game.

Edit: Added a couple of comments.

White had two weak groups, neither of which you attacked. Instead, your center group ended up being attacked. Being forced to capture White's dead group was humiliating.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:13 am**

Thank you very much Bill.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:14 am**

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:20 am**

Boidhre wrote:I'd like to know what I failed to do to seriously disrupt it. I think I'm being too timid about invading/reducing...

Boidhre wrote:Thank you very much Bill.

If you read Bill's notes again, you'll notice 99% of them are on basics. Very local, basic shapes and tesuji.
Bill is telling you something without explicitly saying it: it's still your basics,
not "general ideas and strategies" that are the most crucial right now.
The key word is "general" -- what you must work on now is very specific: local, basic shapes and tesuji.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:23 am**

EdLee wrote:
Boidhre wrote:I'd like to know what I failed to do to seriously disrupt it. I think I'm being too timid about invading/reducing...
Boidhre wrote:Thank you very much Bill.
If you read Bill's notes again, you'll notice 99% of them are on basics. Very local, basic shapes and tesuji.
Bill is telling you something without explicitly saying it: it's still your basics,
not "general ideas and strategies" that are the most crucial right now.

Yes, but I like general ideas and strategies and they give me something fun to play with while playing out games and trying to work out the problems in my shapes and tesuji.

I'm fully aware that my basics are still the problem, it just keeps the game more interesting for me to think about the other stuff too.

Posted: **Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:26 am**

Boidhre wrote:Yes, but I like general ideas and strategies and they give me something fun to play with...

I know. Go is so annoying. :mrgreen:

Life In 19x19

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