I wondered about this way to defend, but I didn't count if it is better/worse than yours:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:39 am
by Magicwand
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O W . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O W . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Uberdude wrote:@Joaz
I wondered about this way to defend, but I didn't count if it is better/worse than yours:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It was one of the moves that I looked at. Unfortunately, he can play this sequence:
$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X 6 4 5 X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X 3 X 9 X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . 1 2 X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B 7 X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X 6 4 5 X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X 3 X 9 X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . 1 2 X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B 7 X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...which ends in sente for him.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:19 am
by Joaz Banbeck
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yes, it looks thin, but it is worth one more point in some lines. ( Half a point in others, I think ) And the game is so close, that may make a difference.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:23 am
by Joaz Banbeck
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yes, it looks thin, but it is worth one more point in some lines. ( Half a point in others, I think ) And the game is so close, that may make a difference.
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X d X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . c a X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . b X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X d X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . c a X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . b X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Tewari analysis: I need to play 'a' or 'b' or 'c' or something similar to prevent the obvious double atari. But, because I have to eventually be able to play 'a' if he plays 'd', playing 'b' or 'c' is redundant.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:50 am
by Magicwand
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i think i will win close to 5 points some point of intrest
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . d X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . c , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W | $$ | . X b O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . a O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . d X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . c , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W | $$ | . X b O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . a O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:20 am
by Joaz Banbeck
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . B O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . B O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This move is larger than it looks. E4 used to be double gote. Now it is my sente, and still gote for him. When I play it, H4 has lots of aji, and will take at least one more internal gote move for him to kill it. By my count, this is larger than the damage that my group will suffer on the right - which I would have to defend in gote.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:33 am
by Magicwand
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 am
by Uberdude
I didn't count it accurately, but b2 feels bigger to me than t8; maybe MW was too hopeful a weaker player would believe his t8 was sente?
b2 also has some follow-ups not normally present in that yose shape, if white gets b7 then black can't block at a or else b cuts.
$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . 4 X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X 2 | $$ | . X 3 O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | a . b X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | 5 X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . 4 X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X 2 | $$ | . X 3 O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | a . b X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | 5 X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:14 am
by Joaz Banbeck
For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:This move is larger than it looks.
It appears that MW agrees with me. But then, why did he not take B2 himself and let me have T8?
Joaz Banbeck wrote: E4 used to be double gote. Now it is my sente, and still gote for him. When I play it, H4 has lots of aji, and will take at least one more internal gote move for him to kill it.
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O 3 4 . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O 8 . 5 6 . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . 9 . O 7 . . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O 3 4 . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O 8 . 5 6 . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . 9 . O 7 . . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
..or:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O 3 4 8 0 O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . 6 5 7 9 . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . a . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O | $$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O 3 4 8 0 O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . 6 5 7 9 . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . a . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
MW, of course, will not let either of these two happy scenarios occur. But the point is that B2 was bigger than it looked because of possibilies like this. And in the meantime, it is a nice source of ko threats.
Now, what is bigger?
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . C X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . C O O . . . , . . . X . , X C . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . C X O | $$ | . X C O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . C X . . . | $$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . | $$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . | $$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . | $$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . C O O . . . , . . . X . , X C . | $$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . C X O | $$ | . X C O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O | $$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O | $$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:24 am
by Uberdude
@Joaz:
Joaz Banbeck wrote: But then, why did he not take B2 himself and let me have T8?
I share your surprise. Maybe he hoped you would be weak minded and think t8 was sente
@Magicwand:
Did you expect black to answer your t8? Seems to me b2 was bigger, particularly if you let him have it in sente.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:43 am
by Joaz Banbeck
@Uberdude
Uberdude wrote:... Maybe he hoped you would be weak minded and think t8 was sente
After I choked and let him have K6 so easily, this is not an entirely unfounded assumption.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:25 pm
by Magicwand
Uberdude wrote:@Magicwand:
Did you expect black to answer your t8? Seems to me b2 was bigger, particularly if you let him have it in sente.
i am not convinced that b2 is bigger than t8. i counted that i lose that point and i win my at least 5 points. there is no question that i will win this game...t8 is bigger than it looks.
Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:12 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
After substantial analysis in the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that, if I play my endgame perfectly, and MW merely plays safely and competently, I still lose by two points.
But then, why did he not take B2 himself and let me have T8? 
