Life In 19x19

RobertJasiek wrote:The tournament's best player is Manuel Neuer, who does the job of two players.

The tournament's best player is still TBD, but that was an amazing sweeper-keeper display by Neuer. Good match.

Wow, that descended into hate and racism quickly.

I thought Netherlands and Mexico played a great match. Both team mostly played attractive football, with a low incidence of fouls, flops and theatrics and with plenty of passion. Van Gaal used the same strategy he's been using all tournament: Start defensively with 5-3-2, save your strength for the second half, then bring on some new players and switch to a more aggressive system. That has paid off in every match so far. Herrera did the opposite, and Mexico dominated the first half, then took off Dos Santos and tried to hold on to their lead. Many people have criticised him for that, but he was 5 minutes away from making it work. I think it is a shame Mexico got knocked out, they played good football, but that's how the tournament works.

The penalty was a foul, plain and simple. When a player chooses a free path by playing the ball into that space and running after it, and an opposing player then obstructs his progress deliberately or recklessly without blocking the ball, that is a foul. That's what the rules say. Was it mean, egregious, or intended to injure? No. Could Robben have stayed on his feet? Maybe. But his progress was clearly impeded and he was not going to get the ball any more. Any player worth his salt would have gone down. Marquez simply should not have lunged in like that.

The tournament's best player is still TBD, ....

the Totally Bald Dutchman you mean for sure

I believe.

HermanHiddema wrote:Any player worth his salt would have gone down. Marquez simply should not have lunged in like that.

Almost any player would have.(Messi compilation/spoken article)

Sadly, diving is a part of the game now and players are trained on when and how to dive. It makes it much more pleasing to see a player like Messi who doesn't dive yet gets as many fouls as anyone.

emerus wrote:Sadly, diving is a part of the game now and players are trained on when and how to dive.

"Now"?
Years back, when I still had a favourite club and actually watched football regulary, players dived as much as in the couple WM macthes I saw. And as shown by this thread: Cheap theatrics are the salt and pepper of this sport.

SoDesuNe wrote:

emerus wrote:Sadly, diving is a part of the game now and players are trained on when and how to dive.

"Now"?
Years back, when I still had a favourite club and actually watched football regulary, players dived as much as in the couple WM macthes I saw. And as shown by this thread: Cheap theatrics are the salt and pepper of this sport.

This is the reason I actually enjoy watching the women's world cup more. Less flopping overall, and generally a more clean game.

emerus wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:Any player worth his salt would have gone down. Marquez simply should not have lunged in like that.

Almost any player would have.(Messi compilation/spoken article)

Sadly, diving is a part of the game now and players are trained on when and how to dive. It makes it much more pleasing to see a player like Messi who doesn't dive yet gets as many fouls as anyone.

Here's Messi doing exactly what Robben did. He moves into the box, cuts back, loses control of the ball, is fouled lightly, and goes down easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3QEvC2NxE

Note, BTW, that this is not a dive, and neither was Robben's. Both player were fouled, they just went down easy.

Also, here's Robben jumping a tackle in the box in the game against Mexico: http://gfycat.com/OfficialWarmheartedGarpike#?speed=0.5

Players are not trained to dive, they are trained to go down easy on light fouls if they have no other options. That's what Robben does, that's what Messi does, that's what any player worth his salt does.

But really, why are we even talking about this? Why is it that, with all this great football being played (has anyone seen Belgium - USA? That was an amazing match!), all some people seem to want to talk about is how much they hate certain players, how much they hate certain teams, or how much they hate the game of football in general?

HermanHiddema wrote:Players are not trained to dive, they are trained to go down easy on light fouls if they have no other options. That's what Robben does, that's what Messi does, that's what any player worth his salt does.

Poor old Steven Gerrard not worth his salt then. When he got bundled to the ground in the box against Italy most commentators agreed it was a foul but he didn't do any theatrics and claim for a penalty. I expect Robben would have (or Gareth Bale just to give an example of an easy-to-fall-over/divey Brit for balance).

Uberdude wrote:Poor old Steven Gerrard not worth his salt then. When he got bundled to the ground in the box against Italy most commentators agreed it was a foul but he didn't do any theatrics and claim for a penalty. I expect Robben would have (or Gareth Bale just to give an example of an easy-to-fall-over/divey Brit for balance).

I said absolutely nothing about theatrics. Did Gerrard go down? Yes -> Worth his salt.

Uberdude wrote:Poor old Steven Gerrard not worth his salt then. When he got bundled to the ground in the box against Italy most commentators agreed it was a foul but he didn't do any theatrics and claim for a penalty.

That's because Gerrard knows that as an English player, he's going to miss the resulting penalty.

I thought you said you had to go down easily on light fouls to be worth your salt. Going down to obey the laws of physics isn't really the player's choice.

Uberdude wrote:I thought you said you had to go down easily on light fouls to be worth your salt. Going down to obey the laws of physics isn't really the player's choice.

And your point is?

Perhaps if your example had been Gerrard not going down after being lightly fouled, you would have a point. And yes, such an example would imply him not being worth his salt.

Lets put it very simply:

You are playing football, and are being paid millions to get results for your team. You are in the box, and get fouled. Your options are:

1. Go down easy, maybe get a penalty.
2. Try to stay on your feet, get nothing.

Which of these is most likely to get your team the results you are being paid to get?

HermanHiddema wrote:has anyone seen Belgium - USA? That was an amazing match!

Half the nation still has sore throats from screaming our way to the quarterfinals

Hushfield wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:has anyone seen Belgium - USA? That was an amazing match!

Half the nation still has sore throats from screaming our way to the quarterfinals

I thought the Belgian play was extremely impressive. Their build-up is beautiful, though they do seem to lack a striker that can finish the job. They had so many chances, but they just kept failing to put them in. Of course, Howard's performance was very impressive, but I can't help but think that forwards like Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez or Robben would have scored some of those chances.

The US put up a great fight, and I'm sure Wondo will cry himself to sleep for several years to come over that miss just before full-time, but overall I thought Belgium was the better team. I'm very much looking forward to their match against Argentina.