Life In 19x19

SamT wrote:I'll look these up

SamT wrote:I guess I'm afraid I'm going to lose focus, or that I have more defects than my opponent does. Also, I've seen a lot of people try to start a ko near the endgame. Being so bad at Yose, I definitely don't want that!

I guess I should expand on/qualify my love of ko (though I apologies if I'm spamming your journal too much). There are many types of ko- but for the sake of simplicity I'll mention 3.
1. "Even" kos - ie ones where both players have an equal amount to gain/loose depending on the outcome of the ko. This could be the same number of points or it could be that loosing the ko is so bad for both players that it would decide the whole game.
2. "Uneven" kos - picnic kos/flower-gazing kos/lopsided kos - basically kos where on side will loose far more than the other if the ko is lost.
3. "One point" kos - kos worth a point no matter who wins

When I first started I would think about ko fights as the first type of "even" ko. I suspect that's the way you think about them too. In the endgame though uneven and 1pt kos are far more common.

If you can play an uneven ko where you are the one benefiting then you should go for it. The reason being that even if you loose the ko it will mean that your opponent had to ignore your ko threat - which means you will be compensated - so either way you win.

Conversely if you have a *genuine* 1pt ko - don't play it if there is anything else to play - the reason here is that the value of the move is only worth 1/2 of a point ie your opponent will either get to play twice for you to win the ko or would need to play twice to take it from you - so any other move that gets one point or prevents a point loss straight out is superior. That said if you can't see any other points on the board - try to win that ko! I usually do this even if I am well ahead or behind because:
1) it is good practice finding ko threat
2) I am terrible at counting and nothing sucks more than loosing by only .5 points
3) I have an ornery disposition.

S2W,

- Ko is a very deep and difficult topic, worth at least one entire book.
- a ko is a trade.
- Your (3) is just a example of your (1). It's not different from (1); just a special case.

Sam. I advise not to get lost in ko theory. Just don't fear ko and see what happens. For the next games, as edlee points out, focus on keeping the initiative, don't follow your opponent around and apply mutual damage.

Thanks everyone!

Knotwilg wrote:Sam. I advise not to get lost in ko theory. Just don't fear ko and see what happens.

Hah!

I just read this same thing in Ishida's Dictionary of Basic Joseki, Vol. 3, p. 74:
"If one is afraid of ko, one should take up another game."

Today, a full day dedicated to Go. I will not be able to maintain this level of effort after Tuesday, when my wife and kiddo come back, but, honestly, life is a lot more enjoyable with them around. Being a Go Monk is not the lifestyle for me.

Beginning of Day Study

I did mostly Tsumego and Tesuji. You'd think I'd have a lot of numbers to show for that, but the first 14 problems I did were fairly long snapbacks, and it took me forever to do them. I then went back to some easier problems, but was making stupid self-atari mistakes, so even the easy stuff was hard. I couldn't even remember how many I did total, but I'd guess it was somewhere around 60. Feels paltry for the hours invested.

I spent a lot of time trying to rest my brain between bouts of Tsumego, so I ended up watching a lot of Nick Sibicky vids. Great stuff! But 4 vids is 4 hours!

I also spent probably an hour and a half shopping for go boards and go stones online, and didn't buy a thing (though I did register at go game guru.) I really wanted some Yunzi stones -- I like the look and feel -- but the lead concerns have scared me away. I have a 5yo that plays go with me, and I want to be absolutely sure it's safe for her too.

Joseki

For dinner, I went to Corner Bakery (sadly, alone), and studied 4-4 Joseki in Ishida.

Joseki, in particular is going slow for me. In 2 hours, I reviewed 5 pages of joseki I'd previously studied, and then did 2.5 new pages. (Note: At least twice: I found myself lost in my version of daydreaming: Ko fighting over unreasonably altered joseki positions.)

At this rate, around 3 pages per day, which is as fast as I can currently go and will be unsustainable when the family gets back, it would take me 80 days, total, to learn just the 4-4 josekis in Ishida. And these are "Basic" josekis.

I hope you I get faster at memorizing them as I go. It really helped tonight, to tell myself why I thought each move was being taken, as I applied it:

"White makes 2 space extension to make a base, black plays line three under star point for more territory, white invades san-san, black 4-4 nobis to cut off white, white hane to threaten to connect, black must choose which variation now... hane and reinforce and give up the corner and lose sente but have a nice wall, or make an L and follow with an atari, and possibly giving up the side, but keeping sente" etc.

Basically, it seems easier to understand, if not remember, when there's a story to it. When there's context. I can process it then.

Games

Because I couldn't sleep, I played about a dozen, maybe 20, drowsy-brained, lightning fast games against MFG 15 kyu 0 stones (yes, I dropped it down from 18 kyu, but I did leave it white with 0.5 komi). My goal was to get to the endgame as fast as possible and get more experience there. I was, of course devastated in most of them, which only makes sense considering how tired I was and how fast I was playing. But I got better quickly, nearly wining. And then, about 1 am, I took almost half the board:



Sadly, no endgame phase

It was actually pretty bad for me at first, but then I jumped out behind one of his walls and started throwing table shapes around, claiming middle territory and isolating his strings. It felt like Baguazhang, just spinning in different directions, projecting power. I gave up a lot for it, ignoring his attacks against my already claimed sides. But I got half the board in compensation. I do feel a little conflicted about it; he had the capture race near the beginning won, but somehow ignored it and let me kill him off. Do I really deserve the win? Who knows.

Still, I wonder if I could do something similar, just much more lightly, with large knight's jumps? They just seem so much easier to destroy than a table. I've tried it many times, but it feels like I'm missing a special pattern to make it work.

But I got half the board in compensation. I do feel a little conflicted about it; he had the capture race near the beginning won, but somehow ignored it and let me kill him off. Do I really deserve the win?

Yes, you do - based on the fact that you read out the capture race but he did not. The really nice things about go (at least for non-handicap matches) is that there is little ambiguity on who played the better game. The fact that you recognize how many mistakes you make is a good sign you're getting stronger.

Re Joseki. Everyone is different but I would advise you to learn a couple but don't stress it too much. You'll find that you'll encounter a lot of the same ones over and over and these will sink in (or you can study them harder). Occasionally you'll encounter new ones and after misplaying them you can go look them up after the game.

Ps. Given your love of of light play and martial arts you might appreciate this pattern: http://senseis.xmp.net/?ThrowingStarShape

Because I couldn't sleep, I played about a dozen, maybe 20, drowsy-brained, lightning fast games against MFG 15 kyu 0 stones (yes, I dropped it down from 18 kyu, but I did leave it white with 0.5 komi). My goal was to get to the endgame as fast as possible and get more experience there. I was, of course devastated in most of them, which only makes sense considering how tired I was and how fast I was playing.

Of course you can do whatever you like to do and we've all been there but one of the primary conditions for study is that you create the proper conditions for it. Otherwise, we only get this kind of confirmation of what you already knew: you were tired. At this point, any comment on any move could be argued as "of course I was/you were tired". In fact, whenever one misses a good move, it may be because

1. they didn't have the time
2. they didn't have the energy
3. they didn't have the knowledge

3 can be fixed by stronger players but 1 & 2 are only in your control.

I then went back to some easier problems, but was making stupid self-atari mistakes, so even the easy stuff was hard.

You should find a level of problems that is easy to you. Can you tell us which problems you are looking at? Have you tried beginner problems at Sensei's? Or the easy ones at gogameguru? Or the 20 kyu ones at Korean Problem Academy?

From your journal I feel that you are both being too hard on yourself (investing a lot of time, even when tired) and then not hard enough (taking conditions for an excuse and not creating proper conditions).

Back when I was a student I gave private courses in math for high school students who were having issues. I discovered that less than 5% of the issues were about lack of knowledge or lack of capability. 95% were about the discipline to create the proper conditions for study.

Knotwilg wrote: From your journal I feel that you are both being too hard on yourself (investing a lot of time, even when tired) and then not hard enough (taking conditions for an excuse and not creating proper conditions).

Back when I was a student I gave private courses in math for high school students who were having issues. I discovered that less than 5% of the issues were about lack of knowledge or lack of capability. 95% were about the discipline to create the proper conditions for study.

You are probably correct. Up until the past two weeks, and actually the past few days, been very careful about getting a full night's sleep, keeping the same bedtime, etc. I think the glare of the screens of my phone and computers, which are what I typically use to study, have been throwing my melatonin levels off. I simply haven't been able to sleep, hardly at all.

I'll have to buy some actual BOOK books, I think, though I was hoping to avoid that. I tend to buy a ton of books just before I quit a hobby. I think my brain assumes "if you have the books, you can learn it any time" and then shuts down. And I really don't want to lose interest in Go.

Know yourself, and know your enemy, right?


ANSWER:

Most of my problems are from Tsumego Pro, Magic Baduk Go, or Go Tsumego and Go Tesuji on my android. I also have been dabbling in Cho Chikun's 900 Elementary Tsumego, and 153 Chinese Problems (this one is a little too hard for me, but very cool -- almost all snapbacks, and thanks to this book I can see some of them now!)

Did not sleep well Saturday night, but I did study early on on Sunday. Just a little bit, of everything:

- Tsumego
- Tesuji
- Joseki
- Endgame
- Oh, and I did learn the monkey jump. And the jumpy monk.

I wanted to spend more time, but my sleep problems have destroyed my brain, and I also had to do quite a bit of work with the people building our house. I spent 5 hours driving around to different hardware stores, bought six light fixtures, and spent $300. Not my idea of fun.

Fun Fact #1: Our house burned down on December 10, just before Christmas, due to a mis-installed furnace. We're rebuilding, but the lawsuit took 4 months, the inspections delayed us another, and the incompetence of our builder another, so only now is the house nearly finished. Thus my Real Life (TM) hassles.

Games:

I played one game on IGS, even though I was feeling quite exhausted. I lost, but it wasn't JUST because my play was terrible. The other guy was better than me, and I could tell. My instincts hinted that maybe he used to be MUCH better, but was a little rusty. If he hadn't made a couple of simple mistakes, I would've lost by 50 or 80 points instead of 18. I will try to post the game later, when I'm on the right computer.

I also had another teaching game with my friend, Noel. I showed him the monkey jump and suggested he use it against me, and I managed to figure out the right move to shut it down, but it still worked wonders. I then used it back on him, and he failed to block it. He learned a lot but still looks terribly intimidated, even though I didn't think I was beating up on him. Perhaps the real thing that scares him is how huge the game is, and how complex the strategy. He says he wants to play something simpler, like Chess He's a big anime fan, so I told him to go watch Hikaru No Go. We'll see if I can make him an addict.

No games yesterday. Was very tired due to the sleep issues I've been having. I focused instead on:

1) Tsumego/Tesuji- Approximately 190 of them! Maybe more!
-All 156 from "Basic" on Wbaduk (I missed 1/5 on first pass, which is a surprisingly high number)
-9 more on "Easy"
-The rest (uncounted, but quite a few) from Tsumego Pro, mostly Basic and Easy, plus the 300 pack of Tesuji I bought.

2) Joseki
-Reviewed what I learned yesterday, got a couple of new ones, about half a page in Ishida.
-Also started watching the Nick Sibicky vid on 9 4-4 joseki approach responses, but got too tired to continue.

3) SLEEP!
-I focused on getting some magnesium, melatonin, and vitamin D in me around 6:30.
-Passed out around 7:30, slept all the way through
-Feel great now! Ready to really learn something today.

Note: I can't find that game I played Sunday on IGS. If I forgot to save it, is it lost forever, or is there a way to get it off the server? Anyone know? If not, no big loss. I will be more careful in the future.

SamT wrote:Note: I can't find that game I played Sunday on IGS. If I forgot to save it, is it lost forever, or is there a way to get it off the server?

Hi Sam. You can access the IGS games archive by logging in on the following page: my.pandanet.co.jp/index-e.htm

Thanks, Hushfield.

Sunday's game:
I am not playing too hot, and the guy is also better than me, and I can tell. Not a good combination. Yes, I was tired, but it still is me playing. I still made those mistakes -- they may have been the first thing I was thinking, yes, but comments are welcome beause that just means I am still looking at the wrong moves first!




Today's games, over lunch:

Game A
I did horribly badly here. I just couldn't get my brain to read anything, and when I did read anything, I read it terribly wrong. I have no excuse. I am not even sleepy Still, comments appreciated. If this is my "instinctive play", my instincts are seriously malformed.



Game B
I feel bad about this one. This guy was obviously new*, I could tell almost from the start. I felt like I was beating up on him. I wasn't playing terribly well myself; I made several big, big mistakes along the edge and when I was chasing him around through the middle, but he never capitalized on them. If he had been even a little bit more experienced, or just a little bit lucky, he could've had a much better showing. I referred him to L19, since this place has been great for me.

I am also sure that I do not know all of the mistakes I made. Comments are welcome, because I'm sure I was leaving terrible, terrible, terrible things open all the time, and I'd like to know what they are.



Game C
I did a teaching game over lunch with yet another friend. He had played several times on a MMORPG called "Age of Wushu", and he was better than your average newbie, and thought in terms of moyo and whole board position. He seems like he will actually stick with it! No game record, sorry, can't remember it.

Question of the day: I really need to figure out how to memorize my games as I play. Are there any exercises that will help? Anybody managed to train the ability rather than just develop it spontaneously over time?

---
*Okay, so I am new, too. (2 months in on Thursday, I think? I keep losing count?) But few people dive in to new things as deep as I do, or as fast.

PS - I looked up both of my opponents that destroyed me, and they each have over a 1000 losses and wins EACH. That's amazing. 2,000 games of go! I can't imagine that level of experience. Still, I need to be able to beat them. Back to the tsumego books!

SamT wrote:I looked up both of my opponents that destroyed me, and they each have over a 1000 losses and wins EACH. That's amazing. 2,000 games of go! I can't imagine that level of experience.

Hi Sam,

Amazing is not first word that comes to mind.

Without looking at their moves, some potential explanations:

• Their level is much higher than their ~15kyu rank (sandbaggers);
• They absolutely don't care about improving at Go —
  they merely play mindless Go for fun;
• Each account is not one person; rather, it's a Go salon or club,
  and the public computer is shared by tens or hundreds of members.
• Many IGS accounts have over 10,000 or even 20,000 games.
  Yes, that's ten to twenty thousand. These are Go salon accounts.
  It took me about 12 years — I just recently played my 1,000th Rated IGS game.
  Think about this for a moment.