Filthy casual training

PeterN · Post by **PeterN** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Yup, my drunk account is 5k ± 2.63.

We have discovered the new 42!

PeterN

PeterN · Post by **PeterN** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:17 pm

tentano wrote:Unless they're just way off sometimes. If 200-300 people could just take that test and report back to me, I'd have a reasonable statistical sample to estimate how accurate it is. I'm sure the authors would like that data too... and then they'd modify their software so the data from that survey becomes obsolete and it will need to be redone.

If you want to do this you could just enter 200-300 random KGS usernames and compare what it says their rank is compared to what KGS says their rank is.

PeterN

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:24 pm

I like this simple, yet brilliant suggestion.

Abyssinica · Post by **Abyssinica** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:20 pm

Notice the confidence interval is always the same. Seems to be broken.

RBerenguel · Post by **RBerenguel** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:17 am

tentano wrote:EDIT 08-dec-2014:

Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 1
Level Up Review 1
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 2
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Level Up Review 2
Essential Life and Death 1
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3
1001 Life and Death Problems
Cho's Elementary
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Cho's Intermediate
Cho's Advanced

The following titles I have (access to) and expect to be harder than what's in the list already.
I haven't examined them enough recently so I don't know for sure how to relatively sort them.
These titles are prime candidates for populating the list above.
Considering the vast amount of problems to dig through, it will be a while before I have these all sorted.

Gokyo Shumyo
Gokyo Seimyo
Xuanxuan Qijing
Igo Hatsuyoron
Maeda 1
Maeda 2
Maeda 3
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4
Essential Life and Death 2
Essential Life and Death 3
Essential Life and Death 4
501 Opening Problems
501 Tesuji Problems
Making Good Shape (only half of this is really a problem book)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 3
Get Strong at Joseki 1
Get Strong at Joseki 2
Get Strong at Joseki 3
Get Strong at the Opening
150 Life and Death Problems for Shodan
150 Joseki Problems for Shodan
150 Tesuji Problems for Shodan
150 Life and Death Problems for 3rd dan
150 Joseki Problems for 3rd dan
150 Tesuji Problems for 3rd dan
150 Life and Death Problems for 6th dan
150 Tesuji Problems for 6th dan
150 Joeski Problems for 6th dan
150 Life and Death Problems for 7th dan
150 Tesuji Problems for 7th dan
150 Joeski Problems for 7th dan

GGPB3 and 1001 LD are likely harder than Cho Elementary, or at least, equivalent. I'd switch them around if I was you. Also, GGPFD tsumego 1 dan (I have the Japanese volume, which is 150 problems for 1 dan instead of 300 for 1-3d) is quite easy, probably around the level of GGPFB3, maybe slightly harder, but not much. 501 opening problems can be done any time, it's not "hard" and will improve play quite a bit. Maeda's are quite hard... And seems like you can't have access to Segoe-Seigen tesuji books. A pity, I love them, even if the easiest are still crazy tricky. As for Cho Intermediate, they are definitely a notch or two harder than GGPFB3 or 1001LD, as for Advanced, I don't even dare to check for now.

The GSAJ volumes are on the hard side, somehow I can manage better the problems on the GGPFD Joseki volume 1.

Damn, I have so many books

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:08 am

Well, that's a little disappointing.

I tried a bunch of valid KGS ids with 40+ games in their recent history, and it's clear this app is still a work in progress.

Despite its protestations of a confidence interval, experimental evidence suggests it's +/- 5 ranks. The advertised confidence interval is a case of hubris.

I was, however, greatly amused when it offered an admonishment to a 6d (estimated as 5d), that it might be unwise to capture so many stones. A 5d (estimated as 3d) was told they should really strongly consider to play less gote.

I'd have to do a lot more to get meaningful stats on specific ranking ranges, though. I don't notice an obvious bias so it's probably not that big of a difference.

It's only a little disappointing, though. This is a machine doing mathsy things, and it's still within 5 ranks of being reliably accurate. The majority (over 80%) is within 3 ranks, so you can use it for a not-that-accurate guess if you've been out of action for a very long time and you want to know what strength you could potentially claim.

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:41 am

I took a look at Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1 and it does seem more-or-less to fit into the current level of difficulty. I was convinced the word "dan" meant it would be too hard by far, but it's really near Cho's Elementary.

Cho's Elementary has slowed down considerably past 300, and even more past 400. I guess I'll be stuck on it for some time to come. I'll just have to keep trudging through it to the bitter end, but I'll mix it up a bit by digging through the other titles, too.

Then, when I've finished it, it's going to get repeated until it's very easy. I'm kinda scared this means ten to twenty times. I hope this is an overestimation.

RBerenguel · Post by **RBerenguel** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:00 am

tentano wrote:I took a look at Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1 and it does seem more-or-less to fit into the current level of difficulty. I was convinced the word "dan" meant it would be too hard by far, but it's really near Cho's Elementary.

Cho's Elementary has slowed down considerably past 300, and even more past 400. I guess I'll be stuck on it for some time to come. I'll just have to keep trudging through it to the bitter end, but I'll mix it up a bit by digging through the other titles, too.

Then, when I've finished it, it's going to get repeated until it's very easy. I'm kinda scared this means ten to twenty times. I hope this is an overestimation.

I'm om my 5th run through elementary and some (10-12 out of 900) still give me some minor trouble

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:31 am

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Level Up Review 2                              |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |    1  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |   50  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |    2  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

[StongBad]Woaho! Systematic![/StrongBad]

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:04 pm

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Level Up Review 2                              |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |   32  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |   50  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |    2  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

Distracting myself with Igojin. It has a few tsumego in each issue, this counts as practice, surely? Study? Surely not entertainment?
I am bad at fooling myself, but good at forgiving myself. It balances out.

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Level Up Review 2                              |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |   92  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |   50  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |    2  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

Played a bunch of even games against an instance of MFoG marked down to 12k-ish. It's weird how unsure I am whether I spotted a mistake or not.

I did win every single time, but I never felt quite certain of it until resignation or scoring.

Computers make odd errors and oddly don't make other errors. It feels so unnatural, especially when it abandons a well and truly killed group immediately, without trying a few pokes at making it live. Absolutely no one-point gote moves. No filling of dame before all points are gone. Even the misguided tenukis seem wrongly misguided.

Maybe that weirdness can nudge my confidence up a little, though. I do in fact spot it all, and clearly don't enter into serious danger at any time.

I don't really understand what I'm so unsure about. Maybe I should try a few even games against weaker humans, too.

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:42 pm

So instead of playing even against a weaker player I played a 6H game against a dan player. This is nearly the same thing, except inverse.

It felt VERY good to win that, especially since I could kill nothing and had to yield something all over the place. I only won by a small margin, so I really feel I just got lucky this one time.

I almost never play handicap games as the receiving end, so I'm really glad I got the chance. I tried to use my experience from the flipside as much as possible, in that I wanted to go for simplicity and closing off potential great complications. I was going for the sort of moves which would discourage and concern me if I saw them while giving a handicap.

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:37 pm

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |  Count |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |    1  |  Level Up Review 2                              |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  212  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |   421  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |   50  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |  1001  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |   40  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |   300  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |   900  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

Added the totals, where easily available. I'll have to think of what to do with the baduktopia titles. Go by page number, I guess?

Also, I keep finding iterations of this problem and I have to ask...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Is this actually hard for anyone? $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . X X X O . . . $$ | . X O O O . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:42 pm

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |  Count |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |    1  |  Level Up Review 2                              |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  212  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |   421  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  200  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |  1001  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |   40  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |   300  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |   900  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

Start of Malkovich #247 viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11233

I know I'm really not doing poorly in an absolute sense, but I find myself wishing I could go through these books faster.
Hopefully that desire helps actually getting faster as time goes by.

When I don't see a solution at all, I have to play it out on a board.
What I do is, first explore a situation completely, then analyze each outcome (is it dead or what?).
There aren't really that many. 20 would be unusually many. Of course I drop everything but the most threatening responses from the imaginary tsumego opponent, since I want to assume maximum resistance. It takes only a short while to establish these, especially since many variations end quickly in defeat.
Then I start to move one step back from the final outcomes, and I try to "see" the outcome from there. Is it visible, or is it just that I know?
Just one single step back, I can easily visualize what the outcome will be.
Surely, just one more step back isn't so much to ask...?
Gradually I step back to the original problem that way.
I might have to repeat this several times, but then it finally becomes visible from the start.

Almost always, it's because of a shortage of liberties which arises a few moves later. I have a definite weakness in spotting those.

Most of these don't require more than seven moves deep reading. If I do master this to the level I want (instant, at-a-glance perfection) then I'll probably not be 4k anymore. At least 3k, maybe as much as 2k. I hope.

tentano · Post by **tentano** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:17 pm

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
| Pass  | Prob# |  Title                                          |  Count |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |  p20  |  Level Up Review 2                              |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   2   |    1  |  Essential Life and Death 1                     |  much  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  212  |  Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 3      |   421  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  348  |  1001 Life and Death Problems                   |  1001  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |   64  |  Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 1    |   300  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
|   1   |  490  |  Cho's Elementary                               |   900  |
+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------+--------+
Next up for inclusion:
501 Opening Problems (after dropping Level Up Review 2)
Essential Life and Death 2 (after dropping 1)
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 4 (after dropping 3)
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Volume 2 (after dropping 1)
Cho's Intermediate (after dropping Elementary)
501 Tesuji Problems (after dropping 1001 L&D)

Not feeling entirely focused the past day. Still, that's some progress for someone who can't focus at all...
A four-game losing streak came to an abrupt halt, today.
6H again, but now I'm white.

I got away with so much nonsense, it's a crime. Especially near the end. I was already leading by twenty points or more. I admit it was mean, and I admit I enjoyed it.

I feel a little better, though. It was an "even" game, in the sense that it had proper handicap.
I especially liked how I never spent a moment's doubt that any weaknesses I left were too hard to see, or too worthless to care about.
Now to replicate this in my even games ...

Life In 19x19

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