Life In 19x19

Father Alex wrote:Hi, guys. I'm new to forum and really like idea to start teaching go from concept of territory and stone connection. But how to move kids to the capturing concept? I teach kids for many years, but some of them stuck to the capturing even they was explained many times territory and influence. Any help?

How was territory explained to them? The concept of territory emerges naturally from the Capture Game. (As it does, in some form or other, from any form of No Pass Go. )

If you explain territory as surrounded area then you need to explain when an opponent can live in it or not, so you must explain life. This is too much.

So you reduce the game purpose to its origin: put down more stones. The only explanation needed is the rule of capture. Every kill or life is played out until the end so that eyes and seki take shape in front of the novice's own eyes. That makes for long games.

So you reduce the board size.

This is my method: stone counting on very small boards.

Father Alex wrote:I teach kids for many years, but some of them stuck to the capturing even they was explained many times territory and influence. Any help?

Hello Fr. Alex, welcome.

If you try to "explain" influence to beginners, I think it's a mistake.
A big mistake, IMO.

As others have mentioned, for raw beginners,
I also feel teaching about "eyes" is a mistake.
It's much better for them to discover about eyes on their own,
naturally, from Capture Go.

Of course, 19x19 is too much for raw beginners.
Start with Capture Go on smaller boards, like 9x9.

If they stick around after 2 to 3 weeks, eventually
they'll be ready for "normal" Go.

EdLee wrote:

Father Alex wrote:I teach kids for many years, but some of them stuck to the capturing even they was explained many times territory and influence. Any help?

Hello Fr. Alex, welcome.

If you try to "explain" influence to beginners, I think it's a mistake.
A big mistake, IMO.

As others have mentioned, for raw beginners,
I also feel teaching about "eyes" is a mistake.
It's much better for them to discover about eyes on their own,
naturally, from Capture Go.

For them to learn about two eyes takes Capture Four.

Father Alex wrote:Hi, guys. I'm new to forum and really like idea to start teaching go from concept of territory and stone connection. But how to move kids to the capturing concept? I teach kids for many years, but some of them stuck to the capturing even they was explained many times territory and influence. Any help?

What age are the kids? Teaching an 9 year old something is very different to teaching a 5 year old.

Bill Spight wrote:For them to learn about two eyes takes Capture Four.

Doh!

( I also almost forgot capture Go has no throw-in or snapback. )

Capture go changes the game objective in order to teach the rule(s). This is both unnecessary and misleading. If you trace back the game objective to stone counting then you learn how to capture stones while understanding why.

Both the Capture Game and Stone Counting have a group tax. If we teach enough beginners by these methods, do you think it will make a comeback?

There are 3 weaknesses of my method:
- small boards don't reveal the beauty of the game
- the scoring needs to be relearnt later and proven equivalent
- group tax

I wouldn't mind its comeback but indeed we won't convince many others

I usually make eyes the second lesson, after the basics and a first training game. If you don't teach them early, then the whole process of beginner games becomes a 'gotcha' exercise. They can't make a living shape because they don't properly understand what a living shape is.

So, yes, they spend some time thinking they have to waste time and stones making eyes. That's a stepping stone on the way to a better understanding of the game.

I have always felt that there is way too much impatience in Go teachers. They want their beginners to play like pros from the start. Bad Go is a necessary precursor to good Go, and learning from mistakes and experience is better than being told not to make mistakes (or, worse yet, not being provided with the necessary information to make those mistakes!)

Inkwolf wrote:I have always felt that there is way too much impatience in Go teachers.

We recently did some go courses for children. They ranged from 6 years of age to 11 years.
I like to emphasize Inkwolf's remark, especially if children are involved.

Some lessons for us: age makes a large difference, and younger ones may need a different approach than older ones.
Regarding learning: I distinguish between learning by teaching versus learning by doing and playing.
Learning by teaching is most often not the best approach.

To illustrate: some younger ones derived playing pleasure from laying out figures and mosaics on the board (flowers, houses, dragons).
I think that's okay. Forcing them to learn the game would be countereffective. If they like making figures, that's okay. All in due course. And yes, we explained the rules (no jargon), so they can play an actual game if they want.

In teaching beginners, generally, jargon is most often best avoided as much as possible. 'Atari' though, is a term they seem to like and swiftly understand. It somehow seems to capture the spirit of the game.