Life In 19x19

Hi tinuviel,
I believe that you guys are trying to do well as admins, and perhaps you take care in exercising your authority. Perhaps you make good decisions most of the time, too.

So maybe you can justify your actions. That's great.

But I think it's also useful for an admin to shield his or her emotions from users. As Herman noted, you are upholding the reputation of the server.

Consider the following quotes from this thread:

... would have been arrested for harassment. Why do trolls always claim righteous indignation against the just fruits of their poor behavior?

Please, spare me.

Of course the admin sounded rude

Live and learn I guess

Of course you don't think they are relevant, because they succinctly point out how ridiculous your argument is.

That's all there is to it. It's silly.

This type of rhetoric naturally makes people feel bad. I don't know the specifics of each of these situations, and maybe most readers here don't either.

But either way, this type of tone doesn't leave a good feeling.

Now I'm sure that you guys have reasons for making the decisions that you did.

But rhetoric is powerful. When people get a negative vibe from the messages you are writing, it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong. People remember how you made them feel, and this, in turn, affects how people view OGS.

Kirby wrote:Hi tinuviel,
I believe that you guys are trying to do well as admins, and perhaps you take care in exercising your authority. Perhaps you make good decisions most of the time, too.

So maybe you can justify your actions. That's great.

But I think it's also useful for an admin to shield his or her emotions from users. As Herman noted, you are upholding the reputation of the server.

Consider the following quotes from this thread:

...etc...

This type of rhetoric naturally makes people feel bad. I don't know the specifics of each of these situations, and maybe most readers here don't either.

But either way, this type of tone doesn't leave a good feeling.

Now I'm sure that you guys have reasons for making the decisions that you did.

But rhetoric is powerful. When people get a negative vibe from the messages you are writing, it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong. People remember how you made them feel, and this, in turn, affects how people view OGS.

Seconded, Administrators seem to acquire an unfairly bad "rap", when most of the time they are at least making logical decisions which shouldn't be scorned as illogical. But it only takes one misplaced word...

RBerenguel wrote:

TegaiS wrote:Probably an example of not so "stellar" interaction: https://forums.online-go.com/t/why-does ... clock/4111

I thought I was alone in thinking this was quite a nasty wart... Lovely moderator 'response' too.

Certainly, that way of acting would've gotten him arrested in real life, eh?

But yeah that was a bit shocking. I certainly can't imagine that any L19 moderator would lock a thread just to protect their own opinion.

On the other hand, here on KGS these kind of argumentative threads tend to drag out for pages and pages. I fully expect that in two weeks or so, maybe more, we will keep seeing new posts added to this thread, and will think "Are they still really talking about THAT?!"

I can understand the impulse to kill it while it's young.

Inkwolf wrote:On the other hand, here on KGS these kind of argumentative threads tend to drag out for pages and pages. I fully expect that in two weeks or so, maybe more, we will keep seeing new posts added to this thread, and will think "Are they still really talking about THAT?!"

I can understand the impulse to kill it while it's young.

I'd rather let people vent their frustration (in a civil manner) through discussion than to stifle that discussion and force them to find some other way to vent that frustration....

Of course, that's just my opinion, and unfortunately I don't have the mod powers to enforce it.

I'm not saying I would like the forum to be more restrictive, just saying I kind of understand. But I have been on many different forums, and it's just a fact of life that some are more dictatorial than others. (Sometimes it's a real culture shock when you end up on one of those forums where the moderators' primary focus seems to be not to allow any discussion at all.)

Tinuviel thank you alot for paraphrasing.

Could you please help me out one more time and paraphrase the admin calling me an idiot after he banned me from the server? (the chat is public but i forgot to take a screenshot)

Is it normal on OGS to call banned persons idiots? If it is not normal what consequences will there be for the admin?

Xylol wrote:[..]

Could you please help me out one more time and paraphrase the admin calling me an idiot after he banned me from the server? (the chat is public but i forgot to take a screenshot)

Is it normal on OGS to call banned persons idiots? If it is not normal what consequences will there be for the admin?

Come on, Xylol … I ain't going to justify that if it happened so … but … you do know as well, as anybody, how we all are human, right? And how emotions boil high in a fight? I have lived long enough to have acted like an idiot many more times than I’d like to admit, and far too often to feel insulted if finally somebody called me so

I think we all strive towards ideals. I for one have, by my own measures, failed more often than succeeded.

“Bloody bastard called me an idiot” — “Bloody idiot called me a bastard” …

hyperpape wrote:Bantari: did you catch that when you post a game on OGS and someone tries to enter, there's no "accept" stage? You just start playing or cancel the game. It's fairly different from the KGS/IGS model that we've used in the past.

Sweet, good design!
Still, I took an issue with the proposition that it was the OP who was cancelling games.

crodgers response to Herman's vacation post is disgraceful. I am disappointed to see that as OGS added real time play like KGS it also added the rude mini-dictator admins like it too. Is crodgers aware that Herman was simply asking for the "silly" and "ridiculous" behaviour OGS happily had for years before the Nova merge?

Uberdude wrote:crodgers response to Herman's vacation post is disgraceful. I am disappointed to see that as OGS added real time play like KGS it also added the rude mini-dictator admins like it too. Is crodgers aware that Herman was simply asking for the "silly" and "ridiculous" behaviour OGS happily had for years before the Nova merge?

In hindsight that was something quite natural to happen. None of the mods of old OGS stayed mod at NovaOGS (In my view the biggest mistake that happend concerning the takeover). Lots of information was lost. And many regulars of the old crowd didn't get the attention they deserved when pointing out issues (you, Uberdude, were basically the last one who got it when speaking up in the forum) or were simply misunderstood, because having never played on oldOGS, the new crowd had no idea what the old folks were talking about. I remember somebody becoming a mod only after a couple of months of picking up the game. And while he is a good mod, some non-stellar encounters were inevitable. Pushing the livegames, having the top priority of welcoming new players and neglecting the old tournaments, I got the impression that OGS became a server for DDK from DDK (for example mods were happily adjusting ranks from 21k to 24k if somebody asked for, but there are still handycap tournaments out there that are played without handy). The ubiquitous title "best place to play go online" only made me sigh when logging in. It got a lot better in meantime and I'm very happy about that. A good thing is that the old tourneys are finally managed by somebody who played in them before the merge. Some bugs and quirks still bug me, though. I haven't found my new home yet.

Trudodyr came in looking for a game.
Xylol accepted the game.
Trudodyr made it clear, find another game/opponent
All actions there after by xylol are summed up as xylol acting like a dick.
Trudodyr leaves the site without a game.

Crodger comes in, addresses the inquiry and situation.
Xylol continues to be a dick and draw things out.
Crodger kicks Xylol.

Crodger let things go too long.

To see this get turned around on a moderator or a website given the available chat logs is a joke. A joke being run by xylol.

Well played xylol.
Crodger, I support you and encourage you to hit the ban button sooner.
Any responses simply extend xylol's pointless petition.

quietimes wrote:
To see this get turned around on a moderator or a website given the available chat logs is a joke.

You are missing the point. It's not the what, it's the how. When one volunteers to be a mod for a server, one becomes one of the public faces and voices of that server. Conflicts will always arise, and it's fine that mods make calls that not everyone agrees with as long as they remain open minded and polite. However when a mod ends a discussion by calling a reasonable request by a reasonable person "ridiculous" that influences how the server is viewed. It's nice that you are showing support for one of your team members, but it was his tone of voice that put him and the server in the line of fire, not some user who has "BeenBad."

bayu wrote:In hindsight that was something quite natural to happen. None of the mods of old OGS stayed mod at NovaOGS (In my view the biggest mistake that happend concerning the takeover). Lots of information was lost. And many regulars of the old crowd didn't get the attention they deserved when pointing out issues (you, Uberdude, were basically the last one who got it when speaking up in the forum) or were simply misunderstood, because having never played on oldOGS, the new crowd had no idea what the old folks were talking about. ...

daal wrote:

quietimes wrote:To see this get turned around on a moderator or a website given the available chat logs is a joke.

You are missing the point. It's not the what, it's the how. When one volunteers to be a mod for a server, one becomes one of the public faces and voices of that server. ...

Just an aside, if one volunteers to be a mod, perhaps one is not suitable to be a mod (N.B. I don't know how crodgers and calantir and the other NovaOGS admins became so). The KGS admins liked to make this point when some little oik asks if he can be an admin. I didn't volunteer to be an admin on old OGS, I was asked if I would be happy to be one after being an active and helpful member of the community for years. I actually rarely used my admin powers. Mostly it was fixing board states after server crashes corrupted them. I never used the thread locking feature as I don't like it: to me censorship is a greater evil than thread necromancy which was the problem it was supposed to address. And cordial disagreements over go server design aren't even slightly evil.

Xylol wrote:I accepted a ranked game offer from a user multiple times, the opponent canceled every game without playing a move.

The title of this thread and your characterization are misleading. Your opponent did not offer you a game multiple times, but invited anyone to play a game. When you accepted the invitation, he said that he did not wish to play with you, and canceled the game. You continued to accept his invitations, thereby preventing, briefly, anyone else from accepting his invitation. That is harassment.