Yuki vs. Jitsuyo

[fireproof]

I have two Japanese shin kaya (agathis?) boards,
and I pair them up both with Kuroki shell sets.
No problem at all.

Shin Kaya is Spruce, I think. Agathis is much harder, and not generally as pretty. Perhaps Katsura is another possibility -- it's a bit darker than spruce, and not as dense as Agathis, from what I've seen.

[Erythen]

Shin Kaya is Spruce, I think. Agathis is much harder, and not generally as pretty. Perhaps Katsura is another possibility -- it's a bit darker than spruce, and not as dense as Agathis, from what I've seen.

Yes, Shin-Kaya is spruce, generally of the Alaskan variety. It's a bit softer than Agathis and better suited for shell stones.

I'll second the recommendation for Katsura. Aside from Kaya, it's my favorite board wood. The disadvantage to Katsura is that it's always itame (irregular grain) so a little more prone to warping if improperly cared for.

[LifeIn9x9]

I think I will just add a question onto this thread, as it's similar:

With the new blossom grade at Kuriokigoishi, what is the closest equivalent to the old "moon" grade, such as my set here:

[img]http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/e6042fe6c5f945fcee76401e0ba1b2ce.jpg[/img]

I bought these probably 18 years ago from Mr. Kuroki.

[Go_Japan]

I think I will just add a question onto this thread, as it's similar:

With the new blossom grade at Kuriokigoishi, what is the closest equivalent to the old "moon" grade, such as my set here:

I bought these probably 18 years ago from Mr. Kuroki.

Based on my very unscientific extensive examination of go stones, I have come to the conclusion that Blossom grade are actually a mix of tsuki and jitsuyo stones. The closest you can get to tsuki is actually buying tsuki grade stones from another vendor.

[Babelardus]

I agree that sliding feels good. And most of the time is not controversial - the example I brought up (move six on the youtube video) is at such an early stage of the game that no one would question where Iyama intended to move. But his move is clearly on the 5-2 point, and then he slides it up to the 5-3 point. How does this jive with various rulesets?

Maybe it's the same as in Chess; that the stone (piece) has not been played until released?

Personally, I wouldn't have any problems with an opponent placing moves like Mr. Iyama does in minute 6. In Chess, some people pick up a piece and place it on the target square, others slide it there, if possible.

I gather it would be impolite to realize that a move would be bad and then start to slide the stone around the board to a completely different location. Same in Chess: it's impolite to start move, then realize it would be a good on, and then keep the piece 'dangling' while looking for a better place to put it.

[Babelardus]

I think I will just add a question onto this thread, as it's similar:

With the new blossom grade at Kuriokigoishi, what is the closest equivalent to the old "moon" grade, such as my set here:

I bought these probably 18 years ago from Mr. Kuroki.

Based on my very unscientific extensive examination of go stones, I have come to the conclusion that Blossom grade are actually a mix of tsuki and jitsuyo stones. The closest you can get to tsuki is actually buying tsuki grade stones from another vendor.

Page on sorting @ Mr. Kuroki

By combining two of our former grades (Moon Grade and Flower Grade), into a single “Blossom Grade”, we raised successfully the quality of Blossom Grade.

I've also read over here that they had a "Standard" grade in the past. Would this mean the following?

Old grades:
- Snow
- Moon
- Flower
- Standard

It would mean that Mr. Kuroki had an extra grade between Moon and Standard/Jitsuyo.

This page tells about the change in stone lines, where it also says that the number of sizes were reduced.

Well, if Mr. Kuroki is unable to obtain enough shells to create both the Moon and Flower grades, he would either need to 'discard' a lot of 'almost there' Moon stones into the Flower grade. By combining Moon and Flower into Blossom, he can make a lot more stones in that grade, and it sits just in between the older Moon and Flower grades. Then Jitsuyo would become the Blue Label.

I could also be wrong, and the situation could be like this:

Old grades:
- Snow
- Moon
- Flower (Standard/Jitsuyo)

Now, if Mr. Kuroki can't create enough 'true' Moon grade stones, he could use half a set of 'true' Moon grade stones, and fill it up with Flower grade stones, which would make Blossom; the remaining Flower stones would then be used for Blue Label.

I don't know for sure. I'm not around long enough in the higher end go equipment scene; it's only been a few weeks, and it's a bit hard puzzling together several years of information and product line changes

[LifeIn9x9]

Seems reasonable. I would assume the "moon" grade would be priced between "snow" and "blossom", agreed?

Another subtitle question is, perhaps yesterday's "moon" is today's "snow"?

[Babelardus]

Seems reasonable. I would assume the "moon" grade would be priced between "snow" and "blossom", agreed?

Yes.

Moon is rated higher than Flower, and Blossom is a combination of these two, thus logically Blossom must be in between them. If the combination is 50/50, Blossom is halfway between Moon and Flower.

The order would now be Snow >> (Moon, if you can get them) >> Blossom (partly moon, partly flower) >> Flower.

Another subtitle question is, perhaps yesterday's "moon" is today's "snow"?

Probably not, at this time. That would be a HUGE price increase and a very large quality decrease.

I just think that Mr. Kuroki can not produce enough Moon-grade stones to make it worthwhile to keep doing it. In this case, too many stones would just fall short of Moon grade, but not enough to keep the Flower grade going. 'Discarding' these very good but just-not-quite-there stones into the Blue label would not be wise. By combining the two grades, Mr. Kuroki has double the number of stones to make sets.

It depends on how you look at it: Mr. Kuroki either decreased the Moon grade quality, or increased the Flower grade quality.

At some point, however, you would end up being correct.

I think that at some point in the future, not enough shells will be available to keep the Snow grade up to par at current production. If that happens, the prices will become even higher, or the quality of the grade will decrease by creating a Snow/Moon combination. Maybe the name will change. Obviously, the Blossom grade, which is a Moon/Flower combination, will then have less Moon grade stones available, and thus the Blossom grade will eventually also decrease in quality.

edit: This page on Sensei's library says:

Japanese clams: Snow >> Moon >> Flower
Mexican clams: Snow >> Moon >> Standard

I don't know if in the past at Mr. Kuroki's Flower == Standard, or that Flower >> Standard.