Life In 19x19

Monadology wrote:Finally, no one is arguing that anyone can pick up Go at any age and get to the level necessary to compete against the promising young professionals in the Korean Go scene in an hour-long game. That's simply straw-manning.

So you admit that young people can get stronger at Go than old people? Or can you suggest some other explanation?

Unless you can suggest a good reason as to why this particular difference means that old minds can't become strong at Go through hard work (and by "strong at Go" I do not mean "can compete at the highest professional level"), and I can't immediately see one, I'm not sure this difference makes a difference.

So what do you mean by strong at Go? Obviously older people can get strong at Go for some definition of strong. The whole point was that they can't get as strong as young people - which you seem to agree with. Note that there's no reasonable definition of "strength", for a competitive game, except as compared to others.

palapiku wrote:So what do you mean by strong at Go? Obviously older people can get strong at Go for some definition of strong. The whole point was that they can't get as strong as young people

The "some definition of strong" would be high level amateur dan, based on the "8d in 3 years" premise from the link at the beginning of this thread, which was the premise that sparked a discussion about limitations.

There are lots of young people that probably will not ever exceed amateur dan level. There are plenty of adults that I think could also make it to similar levels. I think this is a reasonable definition of "strong" and it is also comparative.

In terms of potential, outside of the particular case of youths who are trained and selected specifically for Go potential and strength (in other words, those trained to be Go professionals), I really don't think there is a relevantly large difference in the general population for the upper limit of strength whether one starts young or old.

EDIT: Before anyone suggests it, I am not basing this entirely on the track record of significant ideas in philosophy. That was brought up mainly as a counterexample to a specific post made by Hare that compared Go to academic physics and made a claim about the mind's receptiveness to new ideas past the age of 25, though I do think it suggest something about the continued flexibility of the mind into old age.

Maybe the admin should split this thread so that we get one about how to get stronger at go and one about how age is a factor to philosophical production.

I started doing the 1000 weiqi problems. I started at wbaduk 2d(I think it is similar to tygem 2d). Now, I am over with 150 problems. So far, 4 mistakes. I am also 3d wbaduk now. I started the last week. I decided to do it this way: solve each section. Than, I look at my results. If my percantage is over 95%, I do not do that section again(my first section percentage was 95.5% so I will not repeat it again). After I finish the book, I will repeat the sections with percantage of 95% or lower, and repeat the process untill I can solve every section with over 95%. I will buy Lee Chango books this weekend so I will have enough study material. Also I play games on wbaduk every day(at least 30 minutes per player 30 seconds byoyomi). I always spend more tahn 30 minute son first 100 moves. I try to play every day, and than continue depending on my mood(tsumego, more games or pro reviews). I find this very useful. After these problems I fell improvment in my reading confidence and speed(also I think I can read deeper but I cannot know that, can I?

what does 7d and 8d on Tygem convert to KGS rank? I am stuck on KGS 2 dan for 4 years now. Partly I have college study and illness, but hey I want power in my Go.

also I think I can read deeper but I cannot know that, can I?

Sometimes we got stronger but we didint feel it. I heard from someone i got much stronger these days. I think to full progress we need people who can suport us and giving advices.

LokBuddha wrote:what does 7d and 8d on Tygem convert to KGS rank? I am stuck on KGS 2 dan for 4 years now. Partly I have college study and illness, but hey I want power in my Go.

7d-8d Tygem is roughly KGS 5d-6d or so. When I was active on Tygem I fluctuated between 5d-6d while I was KGS 3d-4d. Fredrik who occasionally stops by here was 8d Tygem when he was active and KGS 6d. Artem fluctuates between 8d-9d on Tygem and he is KGS 7d-8d. I know about a dozen or so more examples and that's my observation. Factors include which server (Korea-1, China-1, etc. etc.) you play on, how many games you've played under the rank, who you play, time zone, etc.

Interesting, doing all that tsumego works and only 5-6 dan KGS. KGS is the strongest of all

Yeah, somehow it now sounds a lot less impressing ^^ People went 8D on KGS in five years, starting with 30k.

give names please

-bad example-

Okay, there's room for speculations about stability but 8D has been achieved.


post scriptum: Okay, I asked, it's more of a 7D at most. And I confused the graph ^^ Sorry.

normally its possible to be a pro in one year but only in japan/china/korea.

kgsbaduk wrote:normally its possible to be a pro in one year but only in japan/china/korea.

Please do give some examples of people in japan/china/korea who became pro after one year. That statement is quite hard to believe without support.

Mio Nao, Takao Orabe... Thats not the point. You cant understand my post well... I was mean be a 1year pro (in strenght) in year or so is possible in these countries using all methods and suport what they have. In Europe that achievement nearly imposible!

Do you mean from 30k to pro level in one year? 30k to 1 dan or so is possible, with some extended study, I think, but anything more aggressive than that really isn't. Even Hikaru took longer than a year