AlphaGo Teach discussion (Go Tool from DeepMind)

[luigi]

Alfie says all black's first moves are <50%, so either black should resign before placing a stone, or komi is too much.

That's consistent with the reported 45% Black win rate in AlphaGo's selfplay games.

[djhbrown]

Unless the opponent is God

Since Alfie, when playing with herself - which according to authority is a sin, but according to Woody Allen is engaging with someone he really loves - is happy to continue when she sees her chances are <50%, she is either the Devil or she doesn't think her opponent is God. If the latter, why then do so many people (including her own father) think she is?

Or could it be that as well as being unable to see eyes, she doesn't even know who she's playing against?

Besides, if God intended Man to play Go, She wouldn't have made it so bloody difficult.

[Vesa]

Alfie says all black's first moves are <50%, so either black should resign before placing a stone, or komi is too much.

That's consistent with the reported 45% Black win rate in AlphaGo's selfplay games.

In every game taking black, it may ask itself: "Do I feel lucky?"

Cheers,
Vesa

[Gomoto]

Life is unjust, so is Go.

[Uberdude]

I actually have a bit of a concern in that rather encouraging creativity, this could make Go more like chess in terms of having a rigid opening book (this giant variation file, 7 MB sgf), will people want to keep playing openings that AlphaGo said was bad?

We are now seeing some effect of this AlphaGo opening book on professional tournaments, in his interview after winning the Shinyao cup Ke Jie seems to say he was frustrated by his opponent memorising the AG opening lines so tried to go off book so that he could get an advantage in the opening like he did in the old days.

Translation from http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2017-12-26 ... 4407.shtml by reddit user u/gjchangmu:

My opponent has remembered the variations in the tool throughtly by heart, and this give me headache. Before the publication of the tool, I think that my openning is good and ahead of the time. After the tool is published, the difference in strength of professional players has been shortened, so I can't get a lead in the openning anymore, which gives me some headache. (In the fifth match) I decided that I need to play differently than AlphaGo suggested, so I played moves from another AI, combined with my own thoughts. However I feel that my opening in the fifth match was not successful, and AIs probably would not rate it high.

[Fadedsun]

Did Ke Jie win that match despite the opening? I hope Alpha Go doesn't deter people from playing different openings. I believe Go is a more flexible game where people don't have to rely on what Alpha Go says is the best result in the opening. Just because one results gives a .5% increase (choosing an arbitrary percent here) in win rate doesn't mean the other moves are "bad".

[trickyness]

How are we going with a analysis of the master vs zero games? Also has anyone heard about a 2 stone game A.I vs Kie Jie
also does anyone know where to find this game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zImt4aRlk1Y

[pookpooi]

Also has anyone heard about a 2 stone game A.I vs Kie Jie
also does anyone know where to find this game?

Please check Ke Jie thread

[Maharani]

I've been having a lot of fun exploring AlphaGo Teach.

An OGS demo board (working on more) with all of AGT's variations after 1. R17 2. Q4 3. D16 4. C4: https://online-go.com/review/412363

AGT positions continued to the end with KataGo from ZBaduk. I played its favourite move after it had at least 12,000 playouts and was also at least 0.3 pp better than its second-favourite move both in terms of "winrate" and "decision" (which sometimes meant 100,000+ playouts).
Game 1: https://online-go.com/review/431592
Game 2 (equal throughout until black crashed and burned in the very endgame): https://online-go.com/review/432118