World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
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pookpooi
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
Iyama Yuta lead until mid-game and then he got into complicated position, it's pretty even at that point and then White (Yamashita) made questionable variation (could say bad) at move 172 that make Black comeback and win.
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
In Redmond's commentary he couldn't find how Black survived if white 172 was descend on left side. Iyama showed how in the post-game analysis: pole connection is sente on cutting stone and then atekomi tesuji sets up a snapback. So 169 tesuji does seem to be legit and saves the day. Park is a sharper reader though so Iyama needs to be careful about letting it get so dicey tomorrow.pookpooi wrote:Iyama Yuta lead until mid-game and then he got into complicated position, it's pretty even at that point and then White (Yamashita) made questionable variation (could say bad) at move 172 that make Black comeback and win.
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
It was nice to see Lucas, and I thought he did a good job as co-host, asking for explanation of a lot of variations viewers would be wondering about too. 6d is presumably his Japanese rating though: he plays in Europe as 2d, though went up to 3d with good results (including beating me) at his last tournament.pookpooi wrote:Lucas Baker (6d) is a surprised commentator today, since he's one of AlphaGo engineer he should provide AlphaGo winrate too!
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pookpooi
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
I remember one comment, not sure if it's in this webboard or Reddit that said that Iyama Yuta had the ability to hack into Japanese pro brains and see how they think. I'm now convinced that he can really do that!
But tomorrow will be very tough day for him, for Park Jungwhan is in his top form.
But tomorrow will be very tough day for him, for Park Jungwhan is in his top form.
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
They do look inexplicably bad to me: wouldn't 97 at 98 have some kind of ko connection or at least make a little eye shape? That kind of "please cut me on dame before I live" can make sense when you are getting some nice sente profit on the other side, but I'm not seeing much here. Waiting for the live video to be available for replay to see if Redmind can explain.pookpooi wrote:According to FineArt, move 97 and 99 cost Ke Jie a game
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John Fairbairn
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
Jokes are subjective but surely have to be based on how seriously you take the event, My sense is that this event is being vastly overhyped only here on L19, regarding it as "championship of the world." As we've discussed on another thread it's just an "international" tournament, and maybe one that's on shaky ground. At least the prize fund has been reduced by a full third - 30 million yen down to 20 million, which is not very much, is it? The LG and Samsung Cups offer much more than that for the winner, and the Chunlan about the same, then there's the Mlily and Bailing, but all these events also have a large infrastructure which spreads extra money around the lower-ranked players. They are also open. In other words, the Korean and Chinese events are the ones to take seriously.I would have preferred Shibano tbh. Better yet, more Chinese and Korean players. Japan having 2 players and Iyama being seeded to the next round playing another Japanese player is a joke.
This year, the event has also been reduced to far fewer games, although with more players. In its first term the event had one player from each country plus Deep Zen doing an all play all. The AI has also been excluded. The apparent diminishing of the event and the ascent of AIs might even be connected.
The selection of the players this year was based on the 1st term's winner (Pak Cheong-hwan) and the rankings in each country. Yamashita qualified as the second Japanese player on the basis of a qualification tournament.
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pookpooi
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
I just discovered go.tianrang.com
TianRang analysis in every moves in relay broadcast
Pretty helpful to me today, too bad I didn't find it for yesterday match.
TianRang analysis in every moves in relay broadcast
Pretty helpful to me today, too bad I didn't find it for yesterday match.
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
John, although I hear what you say about Japanese not having articles etc, I think it is rather stretching incredulity to say that the organisers can plead ignorance and aren't overhyping it by calling it "World Go Championship", making the tournament website http://www.worldgochampionship.net/ and banners with a big shiny gold crown. Tom Urasoe at the Nihon-Kiin surely speaks good enough English to know what those English words convey, or is there a cultural problem that no one can say 'no' once an unnuanced translation sticks? I think "World Go Masters" would be a better name, "masters" often being used when top players are invited to a smaller event.
Also I think it's a shame about the draw because I'd like to see Iyama play more top 10 or 20 pros, and in this event he only got 1 opportunity instead of 3, and if he does win people will (justifiably) diminish his achievement by pointing out the easy draw. Still, at least it will be Park he has to beat in the final, rather than say Shin; as if Shin beat Ke and then Park but lost to Iyama (who only beat Yamashita) that would probably be the most unfair outcome of the draw.
Anyway, enough complaining about a bad name, it's nice to have this new event with commentary from Redmond. Here's Iyama's spectacular tesuji to save the day (I think it really works, but could Park find a counter, or otherwise have mashed together the bad aji from the lower side and centre attack more successfully?). Earlier Iyama had played the triangled stone as a net, rather than firmer square atari, which gave white the triangle in sente which put his upper group in more danger, but it he had this tesuji all read out then it seems he can do that. Here's the snapback: If nobi same shape problem:
Also I think it's a shame about the draw because I'd like to see Iyama play more top 10 or 20 pros, and in this event he only got 1 opportunity instead of 3, and if he does win people will (justifiably) diminish his achievement by pointing out the easy draw. Still, at least it will be Park he has to beat in the final, rather than say Shin; as if Shin beat Ke and then Park but lost to Iyama (who only beat Yamashita) that would probably be the most unfair outcome of the draw.
Anyway, enough complaining about a bad name, it's nice to have this new event with commentary from Redmond. Here's Iyama's spectacular tesuji to save the day (I think it really works, but could Park find a counter, or otherwise have mashed together the bad aji from the lower side and centre attack more successfully?). Earlier Iyama had played the triangled stone as a net, rather than firmer square atari, which gave white the triangle in sente which put his upper group in more danger, but it he had this tesuji all read out then it seems he can do that. Here's the snapback: If nobi same shape problem:
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John Fairbairn
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
I agree the Japanese/Nihon Ki-in are overhyping the event. It's just that I sense people here are overhyping it more (uberhyping?) by reading it as THE world championship as opposed to A world (i.e. international) championship. The Japanese overhype is more to do with stretching the definition of international - not least because they appear to have excluded the Kansai Ki-in and western nations - and to some extent with size. Mountains and mice come to mind.John, although I hear what you say about Japanese not having articles etc, I think it is rather stretching incredulity to say that the organisers can plead ignorance and aren't overhyping it by calling it "World Go Championship", making the tournament website
Missing articles (and plurals) matter more than might be supposed, as I know well from translating Japanese patents for legal purposes. They are very convenient from the Japanese point of view, and they can be well aware of that. I'm sure there is also a soupçon of inflated pride in using the "world" label, but I'm quite certain that if you push them to explain it they would just claim it was because they had players from overseas rather than it meant it was discovering the best player in the world. Having said that, when the Fujitsu Cup started and was called "World Championship" I'm sure most people in Japan took that to mean "best in the world" and that was appropriate enough at that time. Since then, the use of the phrase has become ubiquitous and, we may say, debased. But I don't think the Japanese (or the Koreans or Chinese who all have similar linguistic considerations in this particular regard) see it as a debasement. To them it's just stretching their language envelope in a natural way. That, in my view, is best conveyed by using "international" in English.
As to the fact that the Japanese have used the "world" phrase in English - this is from the land of Jinglish! Shops called Titty, Book Off, Climax Coffee, activities such as Let's Bowling, a ski lift that offers Downhill Last Feces of Today, girls' T-shirts emblazoned with the one world Milk. As I said before it's s design tic. They just want it to look English, not be English. Never mind the quality, feel the width.
Going off at a tangent, I've pointed out the overhype of Shusaku before. One example is the famous kosumi fuseki named after him, when it was Inoue Genan who played it first. I just found another example yesterday, where he is credited with inventing a popular joseki that was played first by another Inoue Inseki, Setsuzan. In many ways the Honinbo/Inoue antipathy is still present in the Nihon Ki-in/Kansai Ki-in dealings.
Again I agree. But, for reference, I've called this event the Nihon Ki-in International Championship in the GoGoD database (to stress the Nihon Ki-in bias as much as anything) and for the other one I use Senko Women's International Championship. I'm still in two minds about World Veterans Tournament, but I think the absence of the word "championship" excuses that.Anyway, enough complaining about a bad name,
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sorin
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
Direct link to the point in the video feed where the Michael Redmond and Lucas Baker commentary started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBgUqXi ... t=3h49m57s
Sorin - 361points.com
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EdLee
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
Park won, killed Iyama's group in a semeai with a few liberties to spare.
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Uberdude
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Re: World Go Championship 2018 thread (with Poll)
Got a graph of bot win%? I only watched the end of the game, but Black seemed okay in the beginning with some good territory but when white wrapped around the top left and got an attack going on the left group it seemed hard. In the post-game analysis Iyama was looking at variations in the lower side not ko fight, maybe it went pear shaped earlier?