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Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:19 am
by Javaness2
I don't see any problem making 1 new pro every 2 years. Firstly, Europe can only support financially so many professional players - the DeepMind sponsorship and CEGO sponsorship will end soon. Secondly, the player pool size is not so big. Doesn't it introduce a real problem of respectability if you create too many professionals without them having the rating to back that up?

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:46 am
by jlt
From this thread forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=580 and that one forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16236 there are about 240 professionals in Korea compared to 2 million who play casually, so the ratio is about 1:10000.

In Europe, from http://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Stats_Country.php there are about 43000 people who have participated in at least one tournament. However, not every casual player participates in tournaments, so maybe there are 200000 casual players. Assuming the go population remains constant, 1 new pro in Europe every 2 years will ultimately bring the ratio to about 1:10000, which is reasonable, at least as long as several 7-dans compete.

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:13 am
by Matti
Uberdude wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:Apparently an upset.
It really should be a round robin for such an important tournament.
Yes, the contrast with the British championship format is quite stark. The first stage is the Candidates tournament, which this year only had 15 players around 1d average and only 1 3d+ (former 4d): http://britgo.org/results/2019/cand. The next stage is the Challenger's league, an 8 player round robin event over 4 days with last year's champion and (since this year) runner up (me) plus top 6 from the Candidates. But a bunch of those top 6 declined their places so the Challengers will dip into the 1d/1k players. And then the top 2 of that play a best-of 3-or-5 title match. That's likely to be between myself and Andrew Kay, two 4 dans. Yet the EGF pro qualifier is a battle of 6 and 7 dans for a pro title and comes down to single-elimination (after first 2 rounds).

[Edit but too slow for Java] Having double elimination down to 8 players and then a round robin league would take rather a lot of games/time though, so I'm not sure that's viable. You could use more selection down to just the 8 players from grand prix points and other events throughout the year. But in the end although Stanislaw and Lukan were the favourites and highest rated, they aren't so far ahead of the others that it feels like an injustice that Tanguy won. If Ilya had entered I'm pretty sure he would have won. Any format will come down to a bit of a lottery of who played well on the day vs not, rather than who has had the best performance over the last year. So well done to Tanguy.
If I were to set up the tournament, it would take one week, possibly allowing the first Saturday and the last Sunday for travel. If one wants to become a professional, investing one week of his time should not be too much. Details of the system will depend on the number of players, but no one would be eliminated by a single loss.

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:23 am
by jlt
Possible competition format respecting the condition that "no one is eliminated after a single loss". Select 8 players P1,..., P8.

1st round: P1 against P5, P2 against P6, etc.

2nd round: winners of round 1 play together, losers of round 1 play together. The two players with 2 wins (call them Q1 and Q2) are selected for round 4.

3rd round: the 4 players with 1 win and 1 loss play together to determine 2 additional players Q3 and Q4.

Rounds 4,5,6: apply the same procedure to Q1,...,Q4 in order to select 2 finalists.

Rounds 7,8,9: final, best-of-three.

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:11 am
by Matti
jlt wrote:Possible competition format respecting the condition that "no one is eliminated after a single loss". Select 8 players P1,..., P8.

1st round: P1 against P5, P2 against P6, etc.

2nd round: winners of round 1 play together, losers of round 1 play together. The two players with 2 wins (call them Q1 and Q2) are selected for round 4.

3rd round: the 4 players with 1 win and 1 loss play together to determine 2 additional players Q3 and Q4.

Rounds 4,5,6: apply the same procedure to Q1,...,Q4 in order to select 2 finalists.

Rounds 7,8,9: final, best-of-three.
With 8 players I would have a round robin played and then some play off games. This would take about the same time as your system.

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:33 am
by jlt
But 7 players can tie after the round-robin, see my previous post viewtopic.php?p=244962#p244962

Re: Euro Pro Qualifiers

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:27 pm
by Matti
jlt wrote:But 7 players can tie after the round-robin, see my previous post viewtopic.php?p=244962#p244962
Then we need three play off rounds. This makes a total of 10 rounds, which just one more than nine rounds. That is doable in a week or less.